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> The goal was that a human could be dropped in the space from anywhere in the world and navigate their surroundings. I see it as a worthy goal. It's funny, be

> The goal was that a human could be dropped in the space from anywhere in the world and navigate their surroundings. I see it as a worthy goal. It's funny, because I've often used an expression that's almost a perfect inversion of this in order to describe the world's best places. That you could be dropped into a place and know that you are in exactly that place, and not in any of the innumerable identity-less spaces on the planet. This goal is dystopian.

detourdog 3y ago
I don't believe the inversion is inherent. I believe a unique identity can exist without explicit cultural references. I don't see the split or the inversion. I would recognize this place as distinct. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salk_Institute_for_Biological_Studies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salk_Institute_for_Biological_... It might be you would describe that as dystopian but I suppose dystopian is in the eye of the beholder. I guess this is a good as place as any to mention that Corbusier railed against the metric system as anti-human. The reasoning was that human spaces should be defined through human proportions not power of 10 proportioning. The lack of tolerance for other peoples preferences is considered dystopian in some circles.
- allturtles 3y ago
  > I would recognize this place as distinct. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salk_Institute_for_Biological_ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salk_Institute_for_Biological_... It's distinctly... hideous. It looks like a prison block, not a place to encourage human happiness. > I guess this is a good as place as any to mention that Corbusier railed against the metric system as anti-human. The reasoning was that human spaces should be defined through human proportions not power of 10 proportioning. That is a silly argument, nothing about the metric system requires you to have power-of-10 proportions in your construction, any more than we have power-of-12 proportions in U.S. construction just because we use feet and inches.
  - detourdog 3y ago
    I thought that might be your reaction to the Salk Institute. I have a feeling prisoners would prefer the Salk institute to their current conditions. I don't think you are giving any Creedence to the personality types that might want to work at the Salk Institute. I'm glad we agree it is distinct. I guess I didn't make my silly argument articulate enough. Let me try again. I was trying to point on the Modernist architect's obsession with the individual over the industrial age. I was trying to point out that he thought the measurement should be in reference to the form which gets lost if people start trying to have even decimal numbers.
  - rrrrrrrrrrrryan 3y ago
    I can tell you haven't been there, which is okay, but I have to try to explain it. The Salk Institute is inarguably one of the most beautiful man made places in southern California. It was built with the explicit intent to attract and cluster the best and brightest minds in the world so they could work together to eliminate human disease. It's all human scale, calm, focused ... the concrete is somehow warm. It masterfully directs the sunlight around it and creates contrasting shadowy nooks where people can chat and take refuge from the heat on hot days. It's inspiring. You can feel the creative power within its walls. Brilliant people from every corner of the globe still uproot their lives just to work there. There are many awful examples of brutalist architecture, but this building isn't one.
    - barrysteve 3y ago
      Cube is cube. Shapes can support skilled expressions of beauty. The least effort spent on drawing a curve, by hand or mathematically, has more beauty than cube. You know what else provides shade in hot days? Trees. Shade cloth. Umbrellas. Sails. Statues. Market stalls. Extrusions. ext. Cube is cube. You can feel anything when it's written. If it's a cold day and your dog just died (or whatever is enough in your personal life to make you slightly unhappy), I'd prefer to be anywhere else in the world than huddled for warmth behind a grey Cube, with the ever present discomfort of infectious disease protocols in the back of my mind. Cube is completely submitted to the purpose of the building, it has no relation to the human body or experience. Cube is cube.
- spicymapotofu 3y ago
  To share a different perspective from the sibling comment, I love brutalist architecture. My interest for design sparked largely from seeing these structures around my old university town, e.g. Killam library. These days I'm more interested in new urbanism, but I have endless joy in telling people who believe their aesthetics universal that I've never enjoyed another library more than that big lightless cube. This especially bothered people compared to the halifax central library, with its modern glass walls and open spaces, which I couldn't stand. This is to say, I believe a foundation to design thought is being able to accept differing aesthetics. I'm not sure if I can find a positive reference for people who simply call everything they don't like ugly, but hopefully, my acts of schadenfreude have opened a mind or two to the same perspective.
munificent 3y ago
Surely you can understand why artists traumatized by WWI might consider cultural uniformity a worthy goal? After watching millions of people slain simply by being from the wrong side of mostly arbitrary national lines, there is an entirely human and humane argument for a design style that deliberately erases cultural lines. I agree with you that specificity is a worthy goal too: people like to feel their lives are unique and irreplaceable.

detourdog 3y ago

I don't believe the inversion is inherent. I believe a unique identity can exist without explicit cultural references. I don't see the split or the inversion. I would recognize this place as distinct. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salk_Institute_for_Biological_Studies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salk_Institute_for_Biological_... It might be you would describe that as dystopian but I suppose dystopian is in the eye of the beholder. I guess this is a good as place as any to mention that Corbusier railed against the metric system as anti-human. The reasoning was that human spaces should be defined through human proportions not power of 10 proportioning. The lack of tolerance for other peoples preferences is considered dystopian in some circles.

allturtles 3y ago
> I would recognize this place as distinct. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salk_Institute_for_Biological_ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salk_Institute_for_Biological_... It's distinctly... hideous. It looks like a prison block, not a place to encourage human happiness. > I guess this is a good as place as any to mention that Corbusier railed against the metric system as anti-human. The reasoning was that human spaces should be defined through human proportions not power of 10 proportioning. That is a silly argument, nothing about the metric system requires you to have power-of-10 proportions in your construction, any more than we have power-of-12 proportions in U.S. construction just because we use feet and inches.
- detourdog 3y ago
  I thought that might be your reaction to the Salk Institute. I have a feeling prisoners would prefer the Salk institute to their current conditions. I don't think you are giving any Creedence to the personality types that might want to work at the Salk Institute. I'm glad we agree it is distinct. I guess I didn't make my silly argument articulate enough. Let me try again. I was trying to point on the Modernist architect's obsession with the individual over the industrial age. I was trying to point out that he thought the measurement should be in reference to the form which gets lost if people start trying to have even decimal numbers.
- rrrrrrrrrrrryan 3y ago
  I can tell you haven't been there, which is okay, but I have to try to explain it. The Salk Institute is inarguably one of the most beautiful man made places in southern California. It was built with the explicit intent to attract and cluster the best and brightest minds in the world so they could work together to eliminate human disease. It's all human scale, calm, focused ... the concrete is somehow warm. It masterfully directs the sunlight around it and creates contrasting shadowy nooks where people can chat and take refuge from the heat on hot days. It's inspiring. You can feel the creative power within its walls. Brilliant people from every corner of the globe still uproot their lives just to work there. There are many awful examples of brutalist architecture, but this building isn't one.
  - barrysteve 3y ago
    Cube is cube. Shapes can support skilled expressions of beauty. The least effort spent on drawing a curve, by hand or mathematically, has more beauty than cube. You know what else provides shade in hot days? Trees. Shade cloth. Umbrellas. Sails. Statues. Market stalls. Extrusions. ext. Cube is cube. You can feel anything when it's written. If it's a cold day and your dog just died (or whatever is enough in your personal life to make you slightly unhappy), I'd prefer to be anywhere else in the world than huddled for warmth behind a grey Cube, with the ever present discomfort of infectious disease protocols in the back of my mind. Cube is completely submitted to the purpose of the building, it has no relation to the human body or experience. Cube is cube.
spicymapotofu 3y ago
To share a different perspective from the sibling comment, I love brutalist architecture. My interest for design sparked largely from seeing these structures around my old university town, e.g. Killam library. These days I'm more interested in new urbanism, but I have endless joy in telling people who believe their aesthetics universal that I've never enjoyed another library more than that big lightless cube. This especially bothered people compared to the halifax central library, with its modern glass walls and open spaces, which I couldn't stand. This is to say, I believe a foundation to design thought is being able to accept differing aesthetics. I'm not sure if I can find a positive reference for people who simply call everything they don't like ugly, but hopefully, my acts of schadenfreude have opened a mind or two to the same perspective.

munificent 3y ago

Surely you can understand why artists traumatized by WWI might consider cultural uniformity a worthy goal? After watching millions of people slain simply by being from the wrong side of mostly arbitrary national lines, there is an entirely human and humane argument for a design style that deliberately erases cultural lines. I agree with you that specificity is a worthy goal too: people like to feel their lives are unique and irreplaceable.