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> Is being against child sexual abuse really an unusual opinion in the tech industry? Nobody said that. You are being manipulative an trying to make it look th

by glogla 3y ago

> Is being against child sexual abuse really an unusual opinion in the tech industry? Nobody said that. You are being manipulative an trying to make it look that people who disagree with you are somehow pro-child abuse. In saying "Does the tech industry have any alternate solutions that could functionally mitigate this abuse?" you are trying to pain a picture in which child abuse is somehow "tech industry" fault. You are also trying to paint a complete Panopticon in which every interpersonal communication is subjected to surveillance by the state as somehow the default, that end to end encrypted electronic communication is changing - while the truth is that personal communication was private for hundreds of years, because it was impossible for the state to listen in on everything.

gnfargbl 3y ago
This thread is tending towards flamewar so I'll try to dial back, but I do want to respond. > You are being manipulative an trying to make it look that people who disagree with you are somehow pro-child abuse. I am not doing that. You described my position as an "alien morality", to which another poster seemed to agree. I was responding to that by clarifying the actual moral point I was making. For the avoidance of doubt, I am not arguing that you are pro-child abuse. > In saying "Does the tech industry have any alternate solutions that could functionally mitigate this abuse?" you are trying to pain a picture in which child abuse is somehow "tech industry" fault. Yes, this is basically a correct understanding of my position. I am stating that the problem has been massively exacerbated by the adoption of E2EE by the tech industry, and that the tech industry therefore has a moral responsibility to deal with the unintended consequences of its own action. > the truth is that personal communication was private for hundreds of years, because it was impossible for the state to listen in on everything. The truth is that in pre-internet times, networks of pedophiles could be dismantled by the state, partly through surveillance -- see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paedophile_Information_Exchange https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paedophile_Information_Exchang... for a supporting example.
- red_admiral 3y ago
  > I am stating that the problem has been massively exacerbated by the adoption of E2EE by the tech industry I understand that most information on how the state fights organised crime will be classfied, but if there is any publicly available evidence for this claim that you can share, I would be interested in reading it (and I hope others on this thread would be too). I'm not saying I doubt you - you give the impression you know what you're talking about - please take this in the spirit it's intended, as one of my former supervisors once said "In academia, asking for citations/references is an expression of interest, not of doubt".
  - gnfargbl 3y ago
    It's completely reasonable to ask for evidence. Don't apologise for asking! I'm not part of any state, and I don't have access to any special knowledge that you can't find on the internet. I'm also not aware of any study that provides the very direct link you're asking for. Because of the nature of E2EE, I don't know if it would be possible to produce one. What I can do is link to evidence such as https://www.weprotect.org/global-threat-assessment-21/#report https://www.weprotect.org/global-threat-assessment-21/#repor..., which has (to me) some fairly compelling data showing that the magnitude of the problem is increasing.

by glogla 3y ago

gnfargbl 3y ago

This thread is tending towards flamewar so I'll try to dial back, but I do want to respond. > You are being manipulative an trying to make it look that people who disagree with you are somehow pro-child abuse. I am not doing that. You described my position as an "alien morality", to which another poster seemed to agree. I was responding to that by clarifying the actual moral point I was making. For the avoidance of doubt, I am not arguing that you are pro-child abuse. > In saying "Does the tech industry have any alternate solutions that could functionally mitigate this abuse?" you are trying to pain a picture in which child abuse is somehow "tech industry" fault. Yes, this is basically a correct understanding of my position. I am stating that the problem has been massively exacerbated by the adoption of E2EE by the tech industry, and that the tech industry therefore has a moral responsibility to deal with the unintended consequences of its own action. > the truth is that personal communication was private for hundreds of years, because it was impossible for the state to listen in on everything. The truth is that in pre-internet times, networks of pedophiles could be dismantled by the state, partly through surveillance -- see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paedophile_Information_Exchange https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paedophile_Information_Exchang... for a supporting example.

red_admiral 3y ago
> I am stating that the problem has been massively exacerbated by the adoption of E2EE by the tech industry I understand that most information on how the state fights organised crime will be classfied, but if there is any publicly available evidence for this claim that you can share, I would be interested in reading it (and I hope others on this thread would be too). I'm not saying I doubt you - you give the impression you know what you're talking about - please take this in the spirit it's intended, as one of my former supervisors once said "In academia, asking for citations/references is an expression of interest, not of doubt".
- gnfargbl 3y ago
  It's completely reasonable to ask for evidence. Don't apologise for asking! I'm not part of any state, and I don't have access to any special knowledge that you can't find on the internet. I'm also not aware of any study that provides the very direct link you're asking for. Because of the nature of E2EE, I don't know if it would be possible to produce one. What I can do is link to evidence such as https://www.weprotect.org/global-threat-assessment-21/#report https://www.weprotect.org/global-threat-assessment-21/#repor..., which has (to me) some fairly compelling data showing that the magnitude of the problem is increasing.