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Ask HN: Why is 1776 a black-holed keyword on YouTube?
If the keyword "1776" appears anywhere in your YouTube search, the auto-complete functionality vanishes. As far as I can tell, this is not the case with any other important year. Does anyone know why this is the case?
- PaulHoule 3y agoI’d imagine it is appropriated by people like the Jan 6 rioters or the folks who think it is not patriotic enough to fly an American flag so they have to grey it out and turn one stripe blue…. Stuff like that, people who think the symbols of America belong to only some Americans as opposed to all of us.
- d-z-m 3y agoThis does not explain why there are not reasonable auto-complete suggestions for the keyword "1776". YouTube can(and does) black-hole certain combinations of keywords it deems not-suitable. e.g. "where to buy"(completions) vs "where to buy guns"(no completions). If problematic keywords were associated with "1776" such as the "1776 Moment" example listed in another comment, YouTube could simply block that, and allow more reasonable completions to remain. They're not doing that, and that is curious to me.
- PaulHoule 3y agoTrying to do that is a game of whack-a-mole. At some point you decide to enforce a boundary that's far away from the boundary you really want to enforce because it is easier. For instance if I was running a photo collection site (I used to) I would not accept any erotic photos at all because that way I won't have to deal with "is this CSAM?" or "is this revenge porn?"
- d-z-m 3y ago> Trying to do that is a game of whack-a-mole. At some point you decide to enforce a boundary that's far away from the boundary you really want to enforce because it is easier. They are already doing it with myriad other combinations of search terms. If your hypothesis was correct, you would think they would be censoring the search string "January 6th 2021", yet even it has suggested completions. "July 4th, 1776" is a much more historically important date than that, and it has none.
- marcusverus 3y agoIt's always strange to see folks defending this bizarre idea that symbols somehow become 'tainted' by any oblique association whatsoever with right-wing undesirables. Like, sure, 300 million people hear '1776' and think of fighting off the filthy redcoats, but, donchaknow, a dozen Proud Boys wore '1776' shirts on Jan 6, so it's problematic now. The idea would be hilarious if it weren't so prevalent.
- seadan83 3y agoProud boys and 1776 is not necessarily to celebrate history of course and is more a call to action (with plausible deniability).. YouTube has to deal with issues of disproportionate volume. I would not be surprised if it were a 100:1 ratio of proud boy type of content compared to AP US history content. If so, in effect, you won't be able to find any history of 1776 anyways, drowned out, a DDOS of the information space These curation activities by YouTube are not necessarily nefarious, but illustrates an implicit trust we need to have (without even necessarily knowing, and large corporations are not inherently trustworthy). If their content were not curated, then volume is going to win the day. Considering SEO is something of an adversarial battle, these types of activity are in a way necessary to some degree. If anyone can flood results by making a 1000 videos, then the system is easily gamed. Transparency into those processes to curate results would be nice, but unlikely since we would see the real nefarious stuff of showing ads and engagement over quality.
- marcusverus 3y ago> Proud boys and 1776 is not necessarily to celebrate history of course and is more a call to action (with plausible deniability). Naturally a successful revolution will be a powerful symbol to folks who want a revolution. That's not at issue. What's it issue is whether the usage of the symbol by a small number of 'undesirable' people should be interpreted as rendering the symbol itself as 'undesirable', such that even auto-completing it is considered 'problematic'. > I would not be surprised if it were a 100:1 ratio of proud boy type of content compared to AP US history content... If their content were not curated, then volume is going to win the day. The topic isn't really about search results, but about which search terms YouTube refuses to acknowledge/auto-complete. Still, I'm not sure what you're saying here. Are you suggesting that search results are determined by the quantity of videos are served up based on the number of videos on the same topic? In my experience the search results on YT are determined by the popularity/trending status of a given video, and somewhat by the user's viewing preferences. When I search for (non-auto-completed) 1776, I see nothing but American Revolution content. This is the case even when I'm logged in (and with YouTube presumably aware of my right-wing politics). > These curation activities by YouTube are not necessarily nefarious... Sure, 'nefarious' is a strong word, but it is certainly bizarre and a cause for concern that an American company (which has no problem auto-completing 'November Revolution' or 'Mein Kampf') is somehow concerned with the implications of autocompleting '1776'.
- akuchling 3y agoProbably for far-right reasons; January 6th was called a "1776 Moment" by Reps. Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert, and the Proud Boys once sold merchandise with 1776 on it. So auto-complete on its own probably suggests a bunch of alt-right terms.
- pipo234 3y agoI've probably been living under a rock here in EU. January 6th, riots, proud boys rings a bell, but what is 1776? Is that the capitol address? A year reference? Some alt-right numerology? Can anyone explain, please?
- yawpitch 3y agoYear that America happened… kind of a big deal to Americans.
- richardjam73 3y agoPassing of the US declaration of independence from England occurred in 1776.
- flyingfences 3y agoUnited States Independence Day https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b1/Goddard_broadside.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b1/Goddard_...
- HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago"Gentlemen, we must hang together or we shall all hang separately."
- seadan83 3y agoThe renewed interest and new mantra of 1776 is a backlash to the 1619 project. This right leaning resource summarizes that point of view: " the New York Times Magazine’s 1619 Project ... attempts to reframe our understanding of American history by alleging the central event in the founding of the United States was the first importation of enslaved Africans to Virginia in 1619 and not the Declaration of Independence in 1776." [1] [1] https://capitalresearch.org/article/architects-of-woke-the-1619-project/ https://capitalresearch.org/article/architects-of-woke-the-1...
- defrost 3y agoIt's locale related, from Australia I get multiple completions, the first of which is 1776cc vw engine https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=1776cc+vw+engine https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=1776cc+vw+engin... which is 100% not related to my search history (scrubbed cookies, weekly VM reset, no particular interest in cars or engine blocks). There are many history and controversy related suggested completions for "1788".
- d-z-m 3y agoI also get "1776cc", but this seems to refer to a Volkswagen engine. If I include a space after the "1776" the results disappear. If it's locale related, it seems to make less sense to black-hole it from within the US, as it is a central year in American history.
- defrost 3y agoSure, all that I understand including the poltical significance of 1776 (is there any US related bending of completion of "1619"?). For contrast I tried "1788" as that is an Australian year with similar type and amount of associated drama here .. Google AU seems fine coughing up both sides links.
- d-z-m 3y ago> is there any US related bending of completion of "1619"? Not that I can tell, full list of relevant auto-complete for that keyword.
- julienreszka 3y agoI confirm that I could reproduce the bug. I use YouTube France
- sys32768 3y agoI also get no auto-complete from "In Congress, July 4, 1776" or even "In Congress, J" even though "In Congress, K" does give autocompletes. There could be Loyalist programmers employed by YouTube who are still holding out digitally against the rebel colonists.
- tuckerpo 3y agoIt's confirmed: Google is run by Redcoats.
- benj111 3y agoAs a 'redcoat', I have to say we aren't particularly bothered about the year 1776. We got rid of the pesky colonies that didn't appreciate tea, so all in all it was a good year. I'd blame the french.
- bsuvc 3y agoAlso, it appears to never suggest an autocomplete containing the number 1776 either. For example, if I type "July 4 177" it shows "July 4 1774" and "July 4 1775", but not "July 4 1776". This obviously is intentional, but why? Searching for 1776 still produces results, but why censor the auto-complete? I find if I type some other obviously controversial phrases, it auto-completes for them. (Edit: not that I think 1776 is controversial personally, but I am assuming someone at Google does)
- nickdothutton 3y agoIf stomping on 1776 searches and recommendations doesn’t impact ad revenue significantly, then Google can do it with no meaningful downside.
- qup 3y agothis doesn't explain why they're doing it, though. what's the point?
- nickdothutton 3y agoOne presumes because the term is vaguely within the orbit or lexicon of some group Google wants to dispriviledge, or that Google wants to reduce the chances of users finding such a groups content on their platform.[] Alternatively, as a Brit, it gave me a chuckle to think there might be a redcoat infiltrator within their software engineering team. [] While not outright banning said content.
- BearhatBeer 3y agoGovernment censorship nannies from, likely, the FBI (re: Twitter Files), in their partnership with YouTube, decided that's bad and they don't want people searching for it. Turns out all this corporate censorship that's been going on, which is heckin' OK because it's just CORPORATE censorship, is government censorship too. But it's cool because it's designed to stop fascism, NOT democratic socialism. Slava Ukrainia!
- hnburnsy 3y agoLooks like the July 4th Google Doodle was celebrating Americas independence. https://www.google.com/doodles/fourth-of-july-2023 https://www.google.com/doodles/fourth-of-july-2023
- edgarvaldes 3y agoInteresting how this very thread will reinforce (for Google indexer) the unwanted associations between the number and the other terms.
- Etrnl_President 3y agoBecause 1776 is the answer to 1984?
- more_corn 3y agoWeird that none of the people posting here who clearly know the answer are providing it in a straightforward way. That’s a bit concerning. It’s because 1776 is a dog whistle for a second American revolution. If you dig, I suspect you’ll find the term associated with some violent alt-right groups calling for armed revolution. Google is doing what it does around calls for violence. Deprioritizing, and generally refusing to broadcast and amplify it.
- moomoo11 3y agoJust disable autocomplete already
- bjourne 3y agoCensor too little and you have pedophiles trawling YouTube for upskirt shots of five-year-olds. Censor too much and students can't research the American revolution. Google just can't get a break.