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False positives would constitute a huge invasion of privacy. Even actual positives would be, a mom taking a private picture of her naked baby, how can you repor

by rafale 3y ago

False positives would constitute a huge invasion of privacy. Even actual positives would be, a mom taking a private picture of her naked baby, how can you report that. They did well dropping this insane plan. The slippery slope argument is also a solid one.

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cmcaleer 3y ago
NYT article about exactly this situation[0]. Despite the generally technical competency of HN readership, I imagine there would be a lot of people who would find themselves completely fucked if this situation happened to them. The tl;dr is that despite this man ultimately having his name cleared by the police after having his entire Google account history (not just cloud) searched as well his logs from a warrant served to ISP, Google closed his account when the alleged CSAM was detected and never reinstated it. He lost his emails, cloud pictures, phone number (which losing access to prevented the police from contacting him via phone), and more all while going through a gross, massive invasion of his privacy because he was trying to do right for his child during a time when face-to-face doctor appointments were difficult to come by. This should be a particularly salient reminder to people to self-host at the very least the domain for their primary and professional e-mail. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/21/technology/google-surveillance-toddler-photo.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/21/technology/google-surveil...
Gigachad 3y ago
The apple one was only matching against known images, not trying to detect new ones. The google one actually does try to detect new ones and there are reported instances of Google sending the police on normal parents for photos they took for the doctor.
- jasonlfunk 3y ago
  And it would only notify someone for human review if a certain threshold was reached; just having one or two violating images would have tripped the system.
- jeffparsons 3y ago
  I feel this neatly captures the overarching corporate philosophies and attitudes of Apple and Google in a single example. Pick your favourite other example of when Apple and Google have faced roughly the same problem as each other, and hold up their respective solutions next to those in the example of CSAM scanning above. I bet they'll look similar.

by rafale 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

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cmcaleer 3y ago

NYT article about exactly this situation[0]. Despite the generally technical competency of HN readership, I imagine there would be a lot of people who would find themselves completely fucked if this situation happened to them. The tl;dr is that despite this man ultimately having his name cleared by the police after having his entire Google account history (not just cloud) searched as well his logs from a warrant served to ISP, Google closed his account when the alleged CSAM was detected and never reinstated it. He lost his emails, cloud pictures, phone number (which losing access to prevented the police from contacting him via phone), and more all while going through a gross, massive invasion of his privacy because he was trying to do right for his child during a time when face-to-face doctor appointments were difficult to come by. This should be a particularly salient reminder to people to self-host at the very least the domain for their primary and professional e-mail. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/21/technology/google-surveillance-toddler-photo.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/21/technology/google-surveil...

Gigachad 3y ago

The apple one was only matching against known images, not trying to detect new ones. The google one actually does try to detect new ones and there are reported instances of Google sending the police on normal parents for photos they took for the doctor.

jasonlfunk 3y ago
And it would only notify someone for human review if a certain threshold was reached; just having one or two violating images would have tripped the system.
jeffparsons 3y ago
I feel this neatly captures the overarching corporate philosophies and attitudes of Apple and Google in a single example. Pick your favourite other example of when Apple and Google have faced roughly the same problem as each other, and hold up their respective solutions next to those in the example of CSAM scanning above. I bet they'll look similar.