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Ask HN: What are your views on IT certification?

6 points by dev_0 3y ago

If you are interested in learning and not for credentialism

eimrine 3y ago
Seems like the industry is heading the way of mandatory certification of programmers, especially in critical areas such as automotive.
- hulitu 3y ago
  Huh ? Never heard about it. None of my SW colleagues is "certified".
- logicalmonster 3y ago
  If certification was offered instead of the current multiple rounds of technical interviews, homework assignments, and leetcode gymnastics, this might be a positive move forward. But instead it's just going to be a certification arms race where you're going to have to have 5 great certifications to merely qualify for the opportunity to start the cycle of interview bullshit.
jtode 3y ago
I got my first return-to-tech job by getting a CCNA and an lpic (Linux) cert. It is an excellent way to demonstrate basic competence in a way that only costs you time and the cost of the exam.
pipo234 3y ago
If you're interested in learning, buy a book, find a free mooc you're interested in, read blogs and most importantly: try stuff, build stuff, experiment. There are some good course that result in some certificate. More often, certification is just something to please the bean counters and teaches almost no useful skills.
- dev_0 3y ago
  [dead]
- sloaken 3y ago
  I agree. You have the best answer IMHO. In my opinion, management is typically not tech so they are never sure you know anything. As such by relying on an outside organization they can shift the responsibility.
john_the_writer 3y ago
Mostly I don't see them as useful. None of my over 100 team mates have anything recent. I suppose when you're starting out.. But it really depends on the industry.
gautamsomani 3y ago
I have 19 years of experience. Started as a Network Technician, then Network Admin, then Linux Desktop Admin, Linux Admin, DevOps Engineer and now an SRE since last 5 years. Did I studied for any certification? Yes. To learn things. Did I gave the exams? No, never, nor will I. Knowledge and troubleshooting is what matters. You may have lot of work experience to show but without knowledge it doesn't matter. Degrees don't matter either.
WentFullRetard 3y ago
[dead]
sloaken 3y ago
The only time I obtained usefulness from a cert, was when I, as a SW developer, was in charge of a bunch of systems guys. By taking a low level systems cert I was better able to communicate with the systems team. At that time thou, I probably had more systems skills than 80% of SW developers.
apkhomie07 3y ago
[flagged]
codingdave 3y ago
Certification matters if you intend to work for business partners of the major vendors, as the number of certs held by their firm dictates the level of partnership and perks they get from the vendor. Outside of that arena, they hold way less value. That being said, the curriculum to get a cert may be worth studying to improve skills. And if you are learning anyway and can afford the testing fee, there is no harm in picking up the cert. But most employers won't really care.
hulitu 3y ago
> Ask HN: What are your views on IT certification? Depends. CCNA (the classes) were reported to be very interesting. On the other hand: MCSE - Must Consult Someone Experienced
dakiol 3y ago
I don't have a single certificate (I work in web development: so the usual programming languages and the usual cloud providers). I learn by reading (good and timeless) tech books and working on personal projects. So far, so good. I hope I don't have to jump into these idiotic AWS certificates... man, they are so dumb: Take a look at these sample questions https://d1.awsstatic.com/training-and-certification/docs-data-analytics-specialty/AWS-Certified-Data-Analytics-Specialty_Sample-Questions.pdf https://d1.awsstatic.com/training-and-certification/docs-dat... It just feels like a waste of time to learn those things. I never had to get a certificate to know the differences between Python and Haskell, or between jQuery and Vue, or between SQLite and Postgres...
- dev_0 3y ago
  [dead]
warner25 3y ago
Credentialism, not learning, is why IT certifications exist. If you're not interested in that part, you're missing the point. They certify, at best, that you have knowledge and skills. At worst, they certify that you're good at taking multiple-choice tests, and that you've memorized a lot of terms and definitions and steps of abstract frameworks that the exam vendor promotes. If you just want to learn, I guess you could do worse than reading an exam guide as a starting point for some set of topics. Used copies of old editions might be very inexpensive, and they'll expose you a broad range of things that you should know at a surface-level. But actually sitting for an exam can be fairly expensive; like thousands of dollars. Even after you pass the exam, certifications typically involve filling out paperwork to prove your work history, recording how you're satisfying continuing education requirements, and paying annual fees. It's crazy to do all that unless you need the credential for employment.
mikewarot 3y ago
We don't have a way to safely run a given executable without unknown and unknowable side effects. We're nowhere near understanding computers well enough to engineer them. Until we make computers as safe and reliable as household wiring, in terms of fault conditions, it doesn't make sense to require knowing the "state of the art", as it's all still guesswork.

6 points by dev_0 3y ago

If you are interested in learning and not for credentialism

Seems like the industry is heading the way of mandatory certification of programmers, especially in critical areas such as automotive.

hulitu 3y ago
Huh ? Never heard about it. None of my SW colleagues is "certified".
logicalmonster 3y ago
If certification was offered instead of the current multiple rounds of technical interviews, homework assignments, and leetcode gymnastics, this might be a positive move forward. But instead it's just going to be a certification arms race where you're going to have to have 5 great certifications to merely qualify for the opportunity to start the cycle of interview bullshit.

jtode 3y ago

I got my first return-to-tech job by getting a CCNA and an lpic (Linux) cert. It is an excellent way to demonstrate basic competence in a way that only costs you time and the cost of the exam.

pipo234 3y ago

If you're interested in learning, buy a book, find a free mooc you're interested in, read blogs and most importantly: try stuff, build stuff, experiment. There are some good course that result in some certificate. More often, certification is just something to please the bean counters and teaches almost no useful skills.

dev_0 3y ago
[dead]
sloaken 3y ago
I agree. You have the best answer IMHO. In my opinion, management is typically not tech so they are never sure you know anything. As such by relying on an outside organization they can shift the responsibility.

john_the_writer 3y ago

Mostly I don't see them as useful. None of my over 100 team mates have anything recent. I suppose when you're starting out.. But it really depends on the industry.

gautamsomani 3y ago

I have 19 years of experience. Started as a Network Technician, then Network Admin, then Linux Desktop Admin, Linux Admin, DevOps Engineer and now an SRE since last 5 years. Did I studied for any certification? Yes. To learn things. Did I gave the exams? No, never, nor will I. Knowledge and troubleshooting is what matters. You may have lot of work experience to show but without knowledge it doesn't matter. Degrees don't matter either.

WentFullRetard 3y ago

[dead]

sloaken 3y ago

The only time I obtained usefulness from a cert, was when I, as a SW developer, was in charge of a bunch of systems guys. By taking a low level systems cert I was better able to communicate with the systems team. At that time thou, I probably had more systems skills than 80% of SW developers.

apkhomie07 3y ago

[flagged]

codingdave 3y ago

Certification matters if you intend to work for business partners of the major vendors, as the number of certs held by their firm dictates the level of partnership and perks they get from the vendor. Outside of that arena, they hold way less value. That being said, the curriculum to get a cert may be worth studying to improve skills. And if you are learning anyway and can afford the testing fee, there is no harm in picking up the cert. But most employers won't really care.

hulitu 3y ago

> Ask HN: What are your views on IT certification? Depends. CCNA (the classes) were reported to be very interesting. On the other hand: MCSE - Must Consult Someone Experienced

dakiol 3y ago

I don't have a single certificate (I work in web development: so the usual programming languages and the usual cloud providers). I learn by reading (good and timeless) tech books and working on personal projects. So far, so good. I hope I don't have to jump into these idiotic AWS certificates... man, they are so dumb: Take a look at these sample questions https://d1.awsstatic.com/training-and-certification/docs-data-analytics-specialty/AWS-Certified-Data-Analytics-Specialty_Sample-Questions.pdf https://d1.awsstatic.com/training-and-certification/docs-dat... It just feels like a waste of time to learn those things. I never had to get a certificate to know the differences between Python and Haskell, or between jQuery and Vue, or between SQLite and Postgres...

dev_0 3y ago
[dead]

warner25 3y ago

Credentialism, not learning, is why IT certifications exist. If you're not interested in that part, you're missing the point. They certify, at best, that you have knowledge and skills. At worst, they certify that you're good at taking multiple-choice tests, and that you've memorized a lot of terms and definitions and steps of abstract frameworks that the exam vendor promotes. If you just want to learn, I guess you could do worse than reading an exam guide as a starting point for some set of topics. Used copies of old editions might be very inexpensive, and they'll expose you a broad range of things that you should know at a surface-level. But actually sitting for an exam can be fairly expensive; like thousands of dollars. Even after you pass the exam, certifications typically involve filling out paperwork to prove your work history, recording how you're satisfying continuing education requirements, and paying annual fees. It's crazy to do all that unless you need the credential for employment.

mikewarot 3y ago

We don't have a way to safely run a given executable without unknown and unknowable side effects. We're nowhere near understanding computers well enough to engineer them. Until we make computers as safe and reliable as household wiring, in terms of fault conditions, it doesn't make sense to require knowing the "state of the art", as it's all still guesswork.