6 ms·

I had a bizarre encounter when working there, also Maps related. I lived in the UK at the time and my post code just didn't exist in Google Maps. I did some dig

by tazjin 3y ago

I had a bizarre encounter when working there, also Maps related. I lived in the UK at the time and my post code just didn't exist in Google Maps. I did some digging, and found out that in fact no post codes in the UK had been added in quite some time. Eventually I found out why: There was some lead dev on Maps, who refused to allow new imports of UK post code data because he thought they were "wrong". They were seeing data with multiple post codes for the same building! For the record: This is valid in the UK, as there's a maximum number of households per post code or something like that. Not sure how that ended eventually, left a few years ago, but I just checked and those post codes now exist.

dspillett 3y ago
It is quite valid for one property to have multiple street addresses and therefore postcodes. It could genuinely have frontage in two streets, or it could be the result of joining two properties in the same street that originally had different postcodes – many long streets have multiple postcodes along their length¹. --- [1] For example even a not-very-long street I used to live on, Alma Terrace in York, has three postcodes: YO10 4DJ on one side of most of it, YO10 4DL on the other side of that, and YO10 4DQ for both sides of the part between that and Fulford Road. I suspect from the street layout that the third code is due to that part of the road being added later, or originally not having anything on it needing a postcode.
- tazjin 3y ago
  In London what ends up happening is that many buildings are so large (e.g. St. George's Wharf[0]) that the household count restriction ends up with multiple codes being allocated. [0]: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/St._George%27s_Wharf.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/St._Geor...
- snappysnap 3y ago
  And it's also valid for UK postcodes to be reused, e.g. following demolition of the original buildings, e.g. tower blocks, the postcode may be deactivated for a period of time, then reactivated when new buildings elsewhere need a new postcode.
red_admiral 3y ago
The UK system is that the pair ("number", postcode) must be unique for any postal address; "number" is often a house number but things like "1A" or even names like "Whitehall" are allowed too. Further, as mentioned, there is a limited amount of "number" that can be associated with any one postcode (currently 100 for new codes, but some legacy postcodes may have more), so for a long enough street, the postcode will change at some point - for example Chepstow Road, Newport changes from NP182LU to NP182LX at some point. If you have more addresses in a single building than the 100 limit, then the postcode indeed changes within the building. This is quite useful as the standard way of entering a shipping address is you type your postcode, and then select the exact address from a dropdown, and there's a natural limit on how long you have to scroll to find yours.
- tazjin 3y ago
  So a thing that increments "number" is probably also "flat", which probably leads to what I understood as "household" in a large building.
  - red_admiral 3y ago
    "Flat" increments "number" if and only if it has a separate post box. If you have several flats behind the same box in a common front door - a common set-up in the UK when a larger house has been converted into several flats - then as far as the postcode system is concerned, those flats don't exist; since people still write "Flat 3, 11 Wisteria Drive ..." on letters this creates various issues with denormalised addresses.
    - tazjin 3y ago
      How much influence does a building owner/developer have over this assignment? Can they explicitly request multiple post codes for a building?
    - dx034 3y ago
      Not always, I've had that exact situation and the flat number was in all systems. All houses in my postcode had several entries for flats and as far as I can tell, they all only had one box.
ricardobayes 3y ago
Any info on how could I have my street address corrected on Maps? They are using a random street name that no one else uses and no matter how many times I report it, they don't change it. It also doesn't matter that I'm a local guide with many, many edits.
- tazjin 3y ago
  If you work there you can maybe reach someone, but at this point the company is so large that even that doesn't help anymore in many cases ;)
- gniv 3y ago
  You can ask a few friends to report it as well. I suspect Google looks at how many reports are made for a feature.
methou 3y ago
This is also valid in Japan, there's huge build with a mall, a hotel and residences called sunshine city in Tokyo, every few floors has it's own zip code! https://www.post.japanpost.jp/cgi-zip/zipcode.php?pref=13&city=1131160&cmp=1&mode=list&addr= https://www.post.japanpost.jp/cgi-zip/zipcode.php?pref=13&ci... Search for 170-0013 for the beginning of the madness. At least google accepted this one.
sanderjd 3y ago
I think this is actually a really perfect demonstration of why you often shouldn't attribute things to malice which can be explained by incompetence. This is on my mind a lot when I see speculation about why google (or other large organizations) does various things. It's just a bunch of human beings with egos and biases and blind spots and imperfect information. Mistakes are made.
- pydry 3y ago
  I'll bet he can reverse a binary tree blindfolded though.
- MagicMoonlight 3y ago
  But that is malice. They're specifically fucking over an entire country because they believe that post codes shouldn't be that way. They know otherwise.
  - sanderjd 3y ago
    No, it isn't. It's ignorance. It's incompetent to be ignorant of something that matters to doing a good job. It's possible to remain ignorant about something despite being told the correct information. (This is the difference between "ignorant" and "unaware".) Malice requires intent to do wrong, either for some selfish benefit or just to be cruel. That's not what's going on in this story, it's "just" ignorance.
xg15 3y ago
Thank you for that insight. That explains a lot of the bizarre design decisions and shortcomings in the maps UI that have frequently annoyed me.

by tazjin 3y ago

dspillett 3y ago

It is quite valid for one property to have multiple street addresses and therefore postcodes. It could genuinely have frontage in two streets, or it could be the result of joining two properties in the same street that originally had different postcodes – many long streets have multiple postcodes along their length¹. --- [1] For example even a not-very-long street I used to live on, Alma Terrace in York, has three postcodes: YO10 4DJ on one side of most of it, YO10 4DL on the other side of that, and YO10 4DQ for both sides of the part between that and Fulford Road. I suspect from the street layout that the third code is due to that part of the road being added later, or originally not having anything on it needing a postcode.

tazjin 3y ago
In London what ends up happening is that many buildings are so large (e.g. St. George's Wharf[0]) that the household count restriction ends up with multiple codes being allocated. [0]: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/St._George%27s_Wharf.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/St._Geor...
snappysnap 3y ago
And it's also valid for UK postcodes to be reused, e.g. following demolition of the original buildings, e.g. tower blocks, the postcode may be deactivated for a period of time, then reactivated when new buildings elsewhere need a new postcode.

red_admiral 3y ago

The UK system is that the pair ("number", postcode) must be unique for any postal address; "number" is often a house number but things like "1A" or even names like "Whitehall" are allowed too. Further, as mentioned, there is a limited amount of "number" that can be associated with any one postcode (currently 100 for new codes, but some legacy postcodes may have more), so for a long enough street, the postcode will change at some point - for example Chepstow Road, Newport changes from NP182LU to NP182LX at some point. If you have more addresses in a single building than the 100 limit, then the postcode indeed changes within the building. This is quite useful as the standard way of entering a shipping address is you type your postcode, and then select the exact address from a dropdown, and there's a natural limit on how long you have to scroll to find yours.

tazjin 3y ago
So a thing that increments "number" is probably also "flat", which probably leads to what I understood as "household" in a large building.
- red_admiral 3y ago
  "Flat" increments "number" if and only if it has a separate post box. If you have several flats behind the same box in a common front door - a common set-up in the UK when a larger house has been converted into several flats - then as far as the postcode system is concerned, those flats don't exist; since people still write "Flat 3, 11 Wisteria Drive ..." on letters this creates various issues with denormalised addresses.
  - tazjin 3y ago
    How much influence does a building owner/developer have over this assignment? Can they explicitly request multiple post codes for a building?
  - dx034 3y ago
    Not always, I've had that exact situation and the flat number was in all systems. All houses in my postcode had several entries for flats and as far as I can tell, they all only had one box.

ricardobayes 3y ago

Any info on how could I have my street address corrected on Maps? They are using a random street name that no one else uses and no matter how many times I report it, they don't change it. It also doesn't matter that I'm a local guide with many, many edits.

tazjin 3y ago
If you work there you can maybe reach someone, but at this point the company is so large that even that doesn't help anymore in many cases ;)
gniv 3y ago
You can ask a few friends to report it as well. I suspect Google looks at how many reports are made for a feature.

methou 3y ago

This is also valid in Japan, there's huge build with a mall, a hotel and residences called sunshine city in Tokyo, every few floors has it's own zip code! https://www.post.japanpost.jp/cgi-zip/zipcode.php?pref=13&city=1131160&cmp=1&mode=list&addr= https://www.post.japanpost.jp/cgi-zip/zipcode.php?pref=13&ci... Search for 170-0013 for the beginning of the madness. At least google accepted this one.

sanderjd 3y ago

I think this is actually a really perfect demonstration of why you often shouldn't attribute things to malice which can be explained by incompetence. This is on my mind a lot when I see speculation about why google (or other large organizations) does various things. It's just a bunch of human beings with egos and biases and blind spots and imperfect information. Mistakes are made.

pydry 3y ago
I'll bet he can reverse a binary tree blindfolded though.
MagicMoonlight 3y ago
But that is malice. They're specifically fucking over an entire country because they believe that post codes shouldn't be that way. They know otherwise.
- sanderjd 3y ago
  No, it isn't. It's ignorance. It's incompetent to be ignorant of something that matters to doing a good job. It's possible to remain ignorant about something despite being told the correct information. (This is the difference between "ignorant" and "unaware".) Malice requires intent to do wrong, either for some selfish benefit or just to be cruel. That's not what's going on in this story, it's "just" ignorance.

xg15 3y ago

Thank you for that insight. That explains a lot of the bizarre design decisions and shortcomings in the maps UI that have frequently annoyed me.