3 ms·

The article seems to imply that in the US the names were arbitrary and just served as mnemonics? In France it worked in the same way, but the names referred to

by bambax 3y ago

The article seems to imply that in the US the names were arbitrary and just served as mnemonics? In France it worked in the same way, but the names referred to actual places: either the name of the town when it was small enough, or a district / neighborhood for larger cities. So your number would be "Trocadéro-12-45" or "Lourmel-78-98" for instance; and, starting in 1928, you could dial it in directly on your phone without speaking to an operator, by using the first three letters of the indicatif (TRO or LOU in those cases). This system was replaced in 1963, but the new numbers simply reused the numbers that were represented by the names. Because of this, many people still told and wrote their numbers using the old names (that still worked), well into the 70s. I'm old enough to remember people telling me their numbers using the indicatif. More information (in French): https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anciens_indicatifs_t%C3%A9l%C3%A9phoniques_%C3%A0_Paris https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anciens_indicatifs_t%C3%A9l%C3... Edit: Another fun fact: numbers followed the order they were attributed, so if your number was Tours-00-01 it meant you were the first one to have a phone number in that town. This being France, getting the telephone was a complex bureaucratic affair and many times you had to prove you really needed one, because they were in short supply. My grandmother was extremely proud that her father had a very low number (some time in the 1920s probably?) because he was captain of the firefighters and needed to be reachable at all times. It was a story she told often.

pavlov 3y ago
> “My grandmother was extremely proud that her father had a very low number” In Finland, a local operator built the world’s first commercial GSM network back in 1991. They initially sold four-digit phone numbers as a perk. (Combined with the country code and the operator code, the numbers today look like this: +358 50 1234) Those short numbers are still being resold by their owners. I’ve heard some of them go for tens of thousands of euros. The psychology of valuable numbers is pretty interesting. NFTs are basically that. You don’t even own the JPEG, you just own a number in a database that indicates that image. And if your ugly ape picture number is 24 and some poor sap has ugly ape picture number 1581, surely that makes you richer and more envied.
- bambax 3y ago
  We're not immune to this. Internet points or "karma" on this very website work the same way.
  - pavlov 3y ago
    Absolutely. But the coveted big number, an ever-accumulating ledger balance, is a different kind of valuable number than the small number, which generally represents a distance to the origin of the number cult. Lower is better because it’s closer to the source. Elon Musk has the biggest big numbers of them all. But that doesn’t mean he could acquire every kind of valuable small number that exists. He can definitely buy a low-numbered NFT, and he can probably buy an early Picasso (though there aren’t many not in museums). But he can’t buy himself a low Erdős number for example. This is what traditionally separates the nouveaux riches from old money: the first are interested in the big numbers, the latter in the small ones. (“My great great grandfather was the second Earl of Somethingdom.”)
    - dale_glass 3y ago
      > But he can’t buy himself a low Erdős number for example. Why not? With that much money I'm sure he can spend enough to convince somebody with a low number to "collaborate" with him in some capacity. Even if it's spell checking the English text or something.
      - pavlov 3y ago
        It's true, academic institutions are quite good at selling their prestige to donors (honorary titles, etc.) So probably he could do this most easily by donating a pile of money to an institution who employs someone with a suitably low number, who then paper-collaborates with the rich donor. Nobody loses face in such a coordinated sell-out. The mathematician did it because it got the math department a $100 million grant. The rich guy is now a recognized patron of the noble science. The university administrators are pleased that they can direct their fundraising efforts elsewhere. And eventually the rich guy's son gets to use this as a talking point to highlight how he's probably inherited some of the family genius: "My father was actually quite an accomplished mathematician too" — nobody remembers or cares 30 years later how it actually went down.
toast0 3y ago
> The article seems to imply that in the US the names were arbitrary and just served as mnemonics? > In France it worked in the same way, but the names referred to actual places: either the name of the town when it was small enough, or a district / neighborhood for larger cities. Named exchanges are before my time, but my understanding is that the names were kind of sort of arbitrary; they'd try to assign the exchanges meaningful names, but that's not always possible, especially when trying to also balance other numbering priorities. In the 1950s, AT&T put together a list of recommended names for exchanges, you can see on wikipedia [1], [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_exchange_names#Standardization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_exchange_names#Stand...
jazzyjackson 3y ago
"Murray Hill" is a neighborhood in manhattan as mentioned in the article, I found a source with some more examples [0]: "For example, in a 1932 Manhattan phone directory, you can see the numbers listed by exchange. CH-elsea. ST-uyvesant. This was before direct dial, so there was no need to figure out what CH or ST converted to as numbers on your rotary dial; you’d simply ask the operator to connect you. Once people dialed directly, the first two letters became the first two numbers of the exchange. In that 1932 phone book, the number for the store Bergdorf Goodman, located near the Plaza Hotel, is given as Plaza 3-7300. That translates to 753-7300, which is still the store’s phone number today." [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/04/07/a-directory-for-klondike-5-the-most-famous-telephone-exchange-in-the-world/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/04/07/a...
- bambax 3y ago
  Oh ok, so it seems it was the same. I re-read the article and still find it unclear on this point, but your comment is much more explicit. Thanks!
eloisant 3y ago
Great explaination, I'm just a bit disappointed you didn't use "Asnières-22" in your examples :)
HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
> My grandmother was extremely proud that her father had a very low number So, Slashdot cred is not a new thing :-)

by bambax 3y ago

pavlov 3y ago

> “My grandmother was extremely proud that her father had a very low number” In Finland, a local operator built the world’s first commercial GSM network back in 1991. They initially sold four-digit phone numbers as a perk. (Combined with the country code and the operator code, the numbers today look like this: +358 50 1234) Those short numbers are still being resold by their owners. I’ve heard some of them go for tens of thousands of euros. The psychology of valuable numbers is pretty interesting. NFTs are basically that. You don’t even own the JPEG, you just own a number in a database that indicates that image. And if your ugly ape picture number is 24 and some poor sap has ugly ape picture number 1581, surely that makes you richer and more envied.

bambax 3y ago
We're not immune to this. Internet points or "karma" on this very website work the same way.
- pavlov 3y ago
  Absolutely. But the coveted big number, an ever-accumulating ledger balance, is a different kind of valuable number than the small number, which generally represents a distance to the origin of the number cult. Lower is better because it’s closer to the source. Elon Musk has the biggest big numbers of them all. But that doesn’t mean he could acquire every kind of valuable small number that exists. He can definitely buy a low-numbered NFT, and he can probably buy an early Picasso (though there aren’t many not in museums). But he can’t buy himself a low Erdős number for example. This is what traditionally separates the nouveaux riches from old money: the first are interested in the big numbers, the latter in the small ones. (“My great great grandfather was the second Earl of Somethingdom.”)
  - dale_glass 3y ago
    > But he can’t buy himself a low Erdős number for example. Why not? With that much money I'm sure he can spend enough to convince somebody with a low number to "collaborate" with him in some capacity. Even if it's spell checking the English text or something.
    - pavlov 3y ago
      It's true, academic institutions are quite good at selling their prestige to donors (honorary titles, etc.) So probably he could do this most easily by donating a pile of money to an institution who employs someone with a suitably low number, who then paper-collaborates with the rich donor. Nobody loses face in such a coordinated sell-out. The mathematician did it because it got the math department a $100 million grant. The rich guy is now a recognized patron of the noble science. The university administrators are pleased that they can direct their fundraising efforts elsewhere. And eventually the rich guy's son gets to use this as a talking point to highlight how he's probably inherited some of the family genius: "My father was actually quite an accomplished mathematician too" — nobody remembers or cares 30 years later how it actually went down.

toast0 3y ago

> The article seems to imply that in the US the names were arbitrary and just served as mnemonics? > In France it worked in the same way, but the names referred to actual places: either the name of the town when it was small enough, or a district / neighborhood for larger cities. Named exchanges are before my time, but my understanding is that the names were kind of sort of arbitrary; they'd try to assign the exchanges meaningful names, but that's not always possible, especially when trying to also balance other numbering priorities. In the 1950s, AT&T put together a list of recommended names for exchanges, you can see on wikipedia [1], [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_exchange_names#Standardization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_exchange_names#Stand...

jazzyjackson 3y ago

"Murray Hill" is a neighborhood in manhattan as mentioned in the article, I found a source with some more examples [0]: "For example, in a 1932 Manhattan phone directory, you can see the numbers listed by exchange. CH-elsea. ST-uyvesant. This was before direct dial, so there was no need to figure out what CH or ST converted to as numbers on your rotary dial; you’d simply ask the operator to connect you. Once people dialed directly, the first two letters became the first two numbers of the exchange. In that 1932 phone book, the number for the store Bergdorf Goodman, located near the Plaza Hotel, is given as Plaza 3-7300. That translates to 753-7300, which is still the store’s phone number today." [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/04/07/a-directory-for-klondike-5-the-most-famous-telephone-exchange-in-the-world/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/04/07/a...

bambax 3y ago
Oh ok, so it seems it was the same. I re-read the article and still find it unclear on this point, but your comment is much more explicit. Thanks!

eloisant 3y ago

Great explaination, I'm just a bit disappointed you didn't use "Asnières-22" in your examples :)

HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago

> My grandmother was extremely proud that her father had a very low number So, Slashdot cred is not a new thing :-)