3 ms·

Thats nice and all. But it has nothing to do with whether something is copyrightable or not. Instead, something is copyrightable based on the amount of human

by stale2002 3y ago

Thats nice and all. But it has nothing to do with whether something is copyrightable or not. Instead, something is copyrightable based on the amount of human input into the process. And it is very clear that there can be a lot of human input into AI image generation. Even though I will concede that going into midjourney and just typing in "Hot anime girl" isn't a lot of input and likely doesn't deserve copyright protection. But there can be so much more to AI art than the boring case of low effort mid journey prompts.

LegitShady 3y ago
No your human input product is the inputs you authored but you're applying for copyright for something else.
- stale2002 3y ago
  So then yes, it is about the human input into the process. Thats what I just said. Having large amounts of human input is the thing that matters for this stuff, which is the case for many forms of AI art. In the same way how photoshop uses a computer, and the computer creates the art, the resulting computer generate art can still have copyright protections. (because of the large amount of human input, even though yes it used a computer)
  - LegitShady 3y ago
    The product of your human work is the input, not the ai generated image. You are merely commissioning some system to do the work on which you have very little actual future authorship except the commission. For art we don't grant the copyright to someone commissioning work, they have to negotiate with the artist for that. But your artist is not human, so cannot create copyrightable works, so you can't even bargain for the right. Your copyrightable prompt just created a public domain result. As for your comparison with photoshop, you have it backwards. The lesson you should learn is that if you fill portions of a work using something that starts authoring parts of the image, you should lose the ability to copyright those parts of the image, because you didn't author them. Just like other works that are a mix of public domain and copyrighted elements, you can only copyright the human authored work. It's like making a comic with AI pictures - the images themselves are public domain (assuming you haven't forgotten to license the use of those works in your computer system that generates the image for you), you assembling the work into a comic is what you own the copyright to. the characters and images designed by a machine remain public domain, no matter if you prompted all of them.
    - stale2002 3y ago
      > The lesson you should learn is that if you fill portions of a work using something that starts authoring parts of the image, you should lose the ability to copyright those parts of the image, because you didn't author them. In your opinion then, using this same line of logic, Photoshop is not protected. The courts disagree with you though. Using your line of logic, you could say that the computer is authoring the work using Photoshop. It is the computer printing out the picture using bits and bytes. That's not a human! That a computer program named photoshop! Then follow the exact line of logic from there. > characters and images designed by a machine remain public domain, We know this to be false though, because a character created by Photoshop is done on a computer though. Therefore, it is clear that yes a machine can be used in the process, unless you are going to claim that Photoshop is not protected because it is run on a computer.
      - LegitShady 3y ago
        I used words very carefully. It depends on the level of human authorship. If you use a tool to correct some pixels thats directed by a human closely, no thats not a problem. If you remove large parts of the image with the ai erase fill, then you've given up authorship of those parts of the image. You could then go in and author changes to the work that you could further add to your copyright. But you would never change the copyright status of the stuff authored by a machine. You're using 'Photoshop' on a naive level without looking at the most important element - how much authorship is the human having. You can basically 'hand paint' a picture in photoshop, or you can use the ai tools and have almost no authorship. Photoshop is a program not a method.
        evilduck 3y ago
        You can "hand paint" in Photoshop, but you can also assemble collages composed of bits and pieces of other copyrighted works and create a result that is still copyrightable. Why is the latter currently legal in your opinion?
        stonogo 3y ago
raincole 3y ago
If the court is convinced that prompt engineering is "original and creative".[1] Maybe it is. Or maybe it's more like tweaking the random seed. [1]: https://www.copyright.gov/comp3/chap300/ch300-copyrightable-authorship.pdf https://www.copyright.gov/comp3/chap300/ch300-copyrightable-..., see "The Originality Requirement" and "Creativity".
stonogo 3y ago
You've nailed the "creative" but not the "original" and you need both.

LegitShady 3y ago

No your human input product is the inputs you authored but you're applying for copyright for something else.

stale2002 3y ago
So then yes, it is about the human input into the process. Thats what I just said. Having large amounts of human input is the thing that matters for this stuff, which is the case for many forms of AI art. In the same way how photoshop uses a computer, and the computer creates the art, the resulting computer generate art can still have copyright protections. (because of the large amount of human input, even though yes it used a computer)
- LegitShady 3y ago
  The product of your human work is the input, not the ai generated image. You are merely commissioning some system to do the work on which you have very little actual future authorship except the commission. For art we don't grant the copyright to someone commissioning work, they have to negotiate with the artist for that. But your artist is not human, so cannot create copyrightable works, so you can't even bargain for the right. Your copyrightable prompt just created a public domain result. As for your comparison with photoshop, you have it backwards. The lesson you should learn is that if you fill portions of a work using something that starts authoring parts of the image, you should lose the ability to copyright those parts of the image, because you didn't author them. Just like other works that are a mix of public domain and copyrighted elements, you can only copyright the human authored work. It's like making a comic with AI pictures - the images themselves are public domain (assuming you haven't forgotten to license the use of those works in your computer system that generates the image for you), you assembling the work into a comic is what you own the copyright to. the characters and images designed by a machine remain public domain, no matter if you prompted all of them.
  - stale2002 3y ago
    > The lesson you should learn is that if you fill portions of a work using something that starts authoring parts of the image, you should lose the ability to copyright those parts of the image, because you didn't author them. In your opinion then, using this same line of logic, Photoshop is not protected. The courts disagree with you though. Using your line of logic, you could say that the computer is authoring the work using Photoshop. It is the computer printing out the picture using bits and bytes. That's not a human! That a computer program named photoshop! Then follow the exact line of logic from there. > characters and images designed by a machine remain public domain, We know this to be false though, because a character created by Photoshop is done on a computer though. Therefore, it is clear that yes a machine can be used in the process, unless you are going to claim that Photoshop is not protected because it is run on a computer.
    - LegitShady 3y ago
      I used words very carefully. It depends on the level of human authorship. If you use a tool to correct some pixels thats directed by a human closely, no thats not a problem. If you remove large parts of the image with the ai erase fill, then you've given up authorship of those parts of the image. You could then go in and author changes to the work that you could further add to your copyright. But you would never change the copyright status of the stuff authored by a machine. You're using 'Photoshop' on a naive level without looking at the most important element - how much authorship is the human having. You can basically 'hand paint' a picture in photoshop, or you can use the ai tools and have almost no authorship. Photoshop is a program not a method.
      - evilduck 3y ago
        You can "hand paint" in Photoshop, but you can also assemble collages composed of bits and pieces of other copyrighted works and create a result that is still copyrightable. Why is the latter currently legal in your opinion?
        stonogo 3y ago

raincole 3y ago

If the court is convinced that prompt engineering is "original and creative".[1] Maybe it is. Or maybe it's more like tweaking the random seed. [1]: https://www.copyright.gov/comp3/chap300/ch300-copyrightable-authorship.pdf https://www.copyright.gov/comp3/chap300/ch300-copyrightable-..., see "The Originality Requirement" and "Creativity".

stonogo 3y ago

You've nailed the "creative" but not the "original" and you need both.