5 ms·

Ooh, all very interesting. I tried a simple experiment about 25 years back with a really, really lightweight green-threads library that I thought might work but

Ooh, all very interesting. I tried a simple experiment about 25 years back with a really, really lightweight green-threads library that I thought might work but I never really understood the synchronisation elements well enough. I really think the world is kind of ready for a LambdaMOO/JHM system again so I will try to come back to play with it and I wish you well in the meantime!

cmrdporcupine 3y ago
Thanks. The core problem with making something like LambdaMOO multi-threaded is that once you introduce real parallelism you just end up with the potential for race conditions and deadlock. So you need some kind of isolation to make it work. And given that MOO is basically a ... database... it makes sense to crib from those notes. These days, I'm not as huge of fan of the OO model MOO embraced. At least not in its pure form. While I'm implementing LambdaMOO slavishly compatible, it's more just to keep myself disciplined. I hope to go beyond it. The 'fantasy' system I'd construct would be look more like a shared Prolog system than a shared Smalltalk/Self system. It'd be constructed around relations & first order logic. Relational but not crappy like SQL. You can build LambdaMOO on top of such a system, but not really the other way around. I just haven't mentally figured out what a sensible multiuser permissions model looks like in that scenario.
- klibertp 3y ago
  > The 'fantasy' system [...] Have you thought about using Logtalk to implement this? The idea (or the parts I think I understood) is very interesting and out of systems environments I saw I think only Logtalk and Mozart/Oz offer features that could help in implementing it. Looking at your other posts, though, it looks like you're more interested in coding the entire system yourself instead of re-purposing something that already exists. :)
  - cmrdporcupine 3y ago
    I've been down those roads, too, though never far. There's also the old classic here: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0743106698100286 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S074310669...

cmrdporcupine 3y ago

Thanks. The core problem with making something like LambdaMOO multi-threaded is that once you introduce real parallelism you just end up with the potential for race conditions and deadlock. So you need some kind of isolation to make it work. And given that MOO is basically a ... database... it makes sense to crib from those notes. These days, I'm not as huge of fan of the OO model MOO embraced. At least not in its pure form. While I'm implementing LambdaMOO slavishly compatible, it's more just to keep myself disciplined. I hope to go beyond it. The 'fantasy' system I'd construct would be look more like a shared Prolog system than a shared Smalltalk/Self system. It'd be constructed around relations & first order logic. Relational but not crappy like SQL. You can build LambdaMOO on top of such a system, but not really the other way around. I just haven't mentally figured out what a sensible multiuser permissions model looks like in that scenario.

klibertp 3y ago
> The 'fantasy' system [...] Have you thought about using Logtalk to implement this? The idea (or the parts I think I understood) is very interesting and out of systems environments I saw I think only Logtalk and Mozart/Oz offer features that could help in implementing it. Looking at your other posts, though, it looks like you're more interested in coding the entire system yourself instead of re-purposing something that already exists. :)
- cmrdporcupine 3y ago
  I've been down those roads, too, though never far. There's also the old classic here: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0743106698100286 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S074310669...