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It is one important purpose, but education has lots of stakeholders who each have their own purposes. The students want to learn things and socialize with peer

It is one important purpose, but education has lots of stakeholders who each have their own purposes. The students want to learn things and socialize with peers. Teachers want to teach, earn a living, get respect of society. Parents want their children to be taught, but also want their kids to be taken care of by other adults so they can go to work in peace. Poorer parents in particular also need their kids to be fed and sometimes schools have to do that too. Governments want an educated citizenry that is productive, pays taxes, knows the basics of law, civics and so on. They also want to monitor and protect unfortunate children who have bad parents. If schools only had one purpose you wouldn't see the stakeholders fight each other so often. But in reality parents fight governments over the curriculum, students fight teachers over the amount of work, teachers fight government/parents over their wage and so on.

cheonic7394 3y ago
> The students want to learn things and socialize with peers. No. Students want to socialize with peers or play sports/video games. Not learn. > Teachers want to teach, earn a living, get respect of society. This is correct > Parents want their children to be taught, but also want their kids to be taken care of by other adults so they can go to work in peace. Poorer parents in particular also need their kids to be fed and sometimes schools have to do that too. Also correct. Parents want schools to be daycare, or for elite families, schools are networking opportunities > Governments want an educated citizenry that is productive, pays taxes, knows the basics of law, civics and so on. They also want to monitor and protect unfortunate children who have bad parents. Correct. But a population can be productive while being largely uneducated (see China) But despite the different priorities of the groups, “the student learning”, is not one of them
- OkayPhysicist 3y ago
  > But a population can be productive while being largely uneducated (see China) China's a terrible example in trying to support your point. If the pitch is "education makes better workers" then you shouldn't be looking at GDP, you should be looking at GDP per capita, aka "Are the workers more productive in more educated countries?". And China has a terrible GDP per capita. It ranks 64th in the world to the US's 7th. Applying slightly more rigorous comparison across the world, there's a clear correlation between GDP/capita and average educational attainment. And you have a very dismal view of students. In my area, at least at the honors level, students were pretty well engaged in learning. Now, that was mostly in order to get into good colleges and appease their parents' desire for them to learn, but they definitely were eager to have the knowledge that was being taught. By the time you get to college, a fair fraction of the students are truly engaged with the material for the material's sake. Even moreso in degrees that aren't glorified trade school programs.
- conception 3y ago
  > No. Students want to socialize with peers or play sports/video games. Not learn. This is frightfully incorrect. Students definitely love to learn. They do not like to be stuffed in a chair and lectured at and forced to do rote activities. But who does?
- sanderjd 3y ago
  I don't think the population of China is "largely uneducated" in the sense that began this thread. It is not rare for Chinese kids to go to school, and those schools are not only used for job training.
all2 3y ago
And most of that fighting goes away when parents assume the responsibility of teaching their own children. This particular responsibility is presently only available to those who build their lives around the idea of a nuclear family and home schooling. I used to think that one had to achieve some middle/upper class financial status to make this viable (and having money does make this easier), but I've seen poor families manage home schooling quite well. This requires community (a church with others who are home schooling, a home school co-op) because the kiddos will age out of your ability to teach rather quickly (10-12 and suddenly they're doing math you haven't touched in 2 decades, or more involved history or literature that the average parent may not be equipped to teach well, or electives that fall outside the experience of the parents).
- sanderjd 3y ago
  > And most of that fighting goes away when parents assume the responsibility of teaching their own children. No, because you've forgotten one of the important stakeholders here, which is society at large, which has a interest in ensuring a general level of shared education. Which once again results in fighting, as parents who are teaching their own children run up against government requirements that they may not agree with.

cheonic7394 3y ago

> The students want to learn things and socialize with peers. No. Students want to socialize with peers or play sports/video games. Not learn. > Teachers want to teach, earn a living, get respect of society. This is correct > Parents want their children to be taught, but also want their kids to be taken care of by other adults so they can go to work in peace. Poorer parents in particular also need their kids to be fed and sometimes schools have to do that too. Also correct. Parents want schools to be daycare, or for elite families, schools are networking opportunities > Governments want an educated citizenry that is productive, pays taxes, knows the basics of law, civics and so on. They also want to monitor and protect unfortunate children who have bad parents. Correct. But a population can be productive while being largely uneducated (see China) But despite the different priorities of the groups, “the student learning”, is not one of them

OkayPhysicist 3y ago
> But a population can be productive while being largely uneducated (see China) China's a terrible example in trying to support your point. If the pitch is "education makes better workers" then you shouldn't be looking at GDP, you should be looking at GDP per capita, aka "Are the workers more productive in more educated countries?". And China has a terrible GDP per capita. It ranks 64th in the world to the US's 7th. Applying slightly more rigorous comparison across the world, there's a clear correlation between GDP/capita and average educational attainment. And you have a very dismal view of students. In my area, at least at the honors level, students were pretty well engaged in learning. Now, that was mostly in order to get into good colleges and appease their parents' desire for them to learn, but they definitely were eager to have the knowledge that was being taught. By the time you get to college, a fair fraction of the students are truly engaged with the material for the material's sake. Even moreso in degrees that aren't glorified trade school programs.
conception 3y ago
> No. Students want to socialize with peers or play sports/video games. Not learn. This is frightfully incorrect. Students definitely love to learn. They do not like to be stuffed in a chair and lectured at and forced to do rote activities. But who does?
sanderjd 3y ago
I don't think the population of China is "largely uneducated" in the sense that began this thread. It is not rare for Chinese kids to go to school, and those schools are not only used for job training.

all2 3y ago

And most of that fighting goes away when parents assume the responsibility of teaching their own children. This particular responsibility is presently only available to those who build their lives around the idea of a nuclear family and home schooling. I used to think that one had to achieve some middle/upper class financial status to make this viable (and having money does make this easier), but I've seen poor families manage home schooling quite well. This requires community (a church with others who are home schooling, a home school co-op) because the kiddos will age out of your ability to teach rather quickly (10-12 and suddenly they're doing math you haven't touched in 2 decades, or more involved history or literature that the average parent may not be equipped to teach well, or electives that fall outside the experience of the parents).

sanderjd 3y ago
> And most of that fighting goes away when parents assume the responsibility of teaching their own children. No, because you've forgotten one of the important stakeholders here, which is society at large, which has a interest in ensuring a general level of shared education. Which once again results in fighting, as parents who are teaching their own children run up against government requirements that they may not agree with.