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I strongly disagree and have worked in multiple environments where your actions would have harmed me personally. Your manager is never your friend. All relati

by mulmen 3y ago

I strongly disagree and have worked in multiple environments where your actions would have harmed me personally. Your manager is never your friend. All relationships with management are adversarial. It’s like talking to the police. Do not volunteer information. You don’t know where other people are, always obtain consent.

johnnyanmac 3y ago
> Do not volunteer information. Well, I guess where you worked was either stack ranked or a generally oppressive atmosphere smothered in politics. Work should be a collaborative effort, even from the greedy billionaire perspective you hire 2 people to do twice the work. If you end up being 25% efficient something is wrong. And this is a sort of odd angle to begin with: your work isn't private to the manager stack. Some CEO ordered a product manager who ordered a director who ordered your manager to order you to make that stuff. the CEO probably doesn't care about you, but it would be easy to track you down if they did care. Likewise, I'm sure any reasonable company has a log history that other co-workers can access
- mulmen 3y ago
  That all sounds and feels nice but is divorced from reality. It is admirable to want to improve working conditions but you should consider the effect on your peers when you take that stand.
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    Divorced from the reality that you don't own the work corporations extract from you? From the reality that there are co-workers who aren't mutually planning your destruction? Everyone's experience is different, I guess. But I assure you there are places where co-workers are fine focusing on work and not making specifically you miserable.
    - mulmen 3y ago
      I'm not sure what conversation you are having or who you think you are having it with. The world you have described doesn't exist. The point here is that taking a stand is admirable but personal. You should never force others to join you. You may desire a world in which unsolicited feedback has no negative consequence but we don't live in that reality.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - johnnyanmac 3y ago
        > You should never force others to join you you were clearly never on the same wavelength as me to begin with if that's your conclusion. Remember your original comment compared "giving out information" that your boss already has to talking to the police (who at least need to subpeona the govt. to get more information). I'm just saying that not every job has you living in fear. If you haven't experienced that environment yet, I wish you greener pastures.
whats_a_quasar 3y ago
This has not been my experience at any of the places I've worked. All of my managers have been supportive, open with information, and collaborative, including in promotions and in negotiations with other teams for resources. I would never knowingly take a job at a company where the culture requires this attitude towards management. I'd also try hard to avoid corporate cultures where praise can somehow hurt someone.
- jhatemyjob 3y ago
  Sounds like you have a good job. That's great! But you still have no idea what your coworkers are going through. Maybe you have a good job, but your coworker has an awful one, and praising them makes them a target.
amatecha 3y ago
Jeez, that sucks, sorry you had to endure such a toxic environment. I hope you're working in a more psychologically-safe workplace now. I've worked in the full spectrum from probably-legally-actionable toxicity to extremely welcoming/safe and productive environments and can definitely say I won't tolerate the toxic shit for a second anymore. It's easy for me to say that because I have a lot of experience, and I absolutely feel for ppl who are early in their career and don't feel they have the flexibility to flee a toxic work environment..
- mulmen 3y ago
  We have similar experiences and have learned similar lessons. The point here is that you don’t know where other people are right now. Treat them like adults, talk to them, and don’t put them in compromising positions. Unsolicited feedback to management has the potential to do harm so don’t do it. Just ask first, it’s not difficult.

by mulmen 3y ago

johnnyanmac 3y ago

> Do not volunteer information. Well, I guess where you worked was either stack ranked or a generally oppressive atmosphere smothered in politics. Work should be a collaborative effort, even from the greedy billionaire perspective you hire 2 people to do twice the work. If you end up being 25% efficient something is wrong. And this is a sort of odd angle to begin with: your work isn't private to the manager stack. Some CEO ordered a product manager who ordered a director who ordered your manager to order you to make that stuff. the CEO probably doesn't care about you, but it would be easy to track you down if they did care. Likewise, I'm sure any reasonable company has a log history that other co-workers can access

mulmen 3y ago
That all sounds and feels nice but is divorced from reality. It is admirable to want to improve working conditions but you should consider the effect on your peers when you take that stand.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  Divorced from the reality that you don't own the work corporations extract from you? From the reality that there are co-workers who aren't mutually planning your destruction? Everyone's experience is different, I guess. But I assure you there are places where co-workers are fine focusing on work and not making specifically you miserable.
  - mulmen 3y ago
    I'm not sure what conversation you are having or who you think you are having it with. The world you have described doesn't exist. The point here is that taking a stand is admirable but personal. You should never force others to join you. You may desire a world in which unsolicited feedback has no negative consequence but we don't live in that reality.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - johnnyanmac 3y ago
      > You should never force others to join you you were clearly never on the same wavelength as me to begin with if that's your conclusion. Remember your original comment compared "giving out information" that your boss already has to talking to the police (who at least need to subpeona the govt. to get more information). I'm just saying that not every job has you living in fear. If you haven't experienced that environment yet, I wish you greener pastures.

whats_a_quasar 3y ago

This has not been my experience at any of the places I've worked. All of my managers have been supportive, open with information, and collaborative, including in promotions and in negotiations with other teams for resources. I would never knowingly take a job at a company where the culture requires this attitude towards management. I'd also try hard to avoid corporate cultures where praise can somehow hurt someone.

jhatemyjob 3y ago
Sounds like you have a good job. That's great! But you still have no idea what your coworkers are going through. Maybe you have a good job, but your coworker has an awful one, and praising them makes them a target.

amatecha 3y ago

Jeez, that sucks, sorry you had to endure such a toxic environment. I hope you're working in a more psychologically-safe workplace now. I've worked in the full spectrum from probably-legally-actionable toxicity to extremely welcoming/safe and productive environments and can definitely say I won't tolerate the toxic shit for a second anymore. It's easy for me to say that because I have a lot of experience, and I absolutely feel for ppl who are early in their career and don't feel they have the flexibility to flee a toxic work environment..

mulmen 3y ago
We have similar experiences and have learned similar lessons. The point here is that you don’t know where other people are right now. Treat them like adults, talk to them, and don’t put them in compromising positions. Unsolicited feedback to management has the potential to do harm so don’t do it. Just ask first, it’s not difficult.