3 ms·

"I think..." is a hedge, "I really liked," (when you didn't) is a lie.

johnnyanmac 3y ago
But what if you did? No one is saying to lie. If you genuinely cannot find any good out of the code review (considerations for performance, easy to read, functional solution, time to execute, ability to reach out to proper peers), then maybe they shouldn't have been hired to begin with? Even a well picked intern these days should have one of those qualities.
- staunton 3y ago
  So, that would be "I think you did it wrong; of course, I can't claim to know that objectively; anyway, I really liked the way you did it"...
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    You sound wishy washy and you need to review your requirements, and/or rope in someone who does knows how to do it right in that case. There is nothing wrong with "this doesn't feel right but I don't have the capacity to tell". If you aren't qualified for that sort of code review, find the proper peer who can.
    - staunton 3y ago
      My comment was parody. Surely, nobody actually says things like that?
      - johnnyanmac 3y ago
        unfortunately I have seen that sort of language. Usually more as mumblings of a manager that has given up on trying to maintain a quality codebase, but I suppose Poe's Law strikes yet again.
- nemetroid 3y ago
  It's right there in the description of the situation. You didn't like it: "If you are calling out your colleagues for doing bad work, ...".
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    There's a spectrum of "like" and "didn't like", you know. Have you ever truly come across a situation with a co-worker where there was no redeedming quality in their code review?
    - nemetroid 3y ago
      > Have you ever truly come across a situation with a co-worker where there was no redeedming quality in their code review? This is irrelevant. Calling out specific parts as good is a great idea, if nothing else as clarification of what in particular it was that you didn't like. This is not what people are arguing against. In the example under discussion, the judgement of the work as a whole was "bad", while the communication on the work as a whole was "I really liked your approach". This is not pointing out redeeming qualities, it's just dishonesty.
      - johnnyanmac 3y ago
        >This is irrelevant. no, it's the entire point. Don't focus all on the bad, we're biased towards that and it's something we should always keep in mind. >In the example under discussion, the judgement of the work as a whole was "bad", exhibit A. Where in that top post was the objective judgement "bad"? As a reminder: > If you are calling out your colleagues for doing bad work, or not the way you would do it work, you should try to rephrase into praise w/ direction. “I really liked how you tackled this, have you thought about this approach?” Instead of “Why didn’t you do it this way?” We're assuming the "caller" in this case is right. When there may not be a metric of "correct approach". This is especially highlighted with "not the way you would do it". Okay, who says your way is the best way? If you cant self-introspect and understand different approaches, as well as shortcomings in your own, then yes. I would say you are that hostile worker no one wants to work with.

But what if you did? No one is saying to lie. If you genuinely cannot find any good out of the code review (considerations for performance, easy to read, functional solution, time to execute, ability to reach out to proper peers), then maybe they shouldn't have been hired to begin with? Even a well picked intern these days should have one of those qualities.

staunton 3y ago
So, that would be "I think you did it wrong; of course, I can't claim to know that objectively; anyway, I really liked the way you did it"...
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  You sound wishy washy and you need to review your requirements, and/or rope in someone who does knows how to do it right in that case. There is nothing wrong with "this doesn't feel right but I don't have the capacity to tell". If you aren't qualified for that sort of code review, find the proper peer who can.
  - staunton 3y ago
    My comment was parody. Surely, nobody actually says things like that?
    - johnnyanmac 3y ago
      unfortunately I have seen that sort of language. Usually more as mumblings of a manager that has given up on trying to maintain a quality codebase, but I suppose Poe's Law strikes yet again.
nemetroid 3y ago
It's right there in the description of the situation. You didn't like it: "If you are calling out your colleagues for doing bad work, ...".
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  There's a spectrum of "like" and "didn't like", you know. Have you ever truly come across a situation with a co-worker where there was no redeedming quality in their code review?
  - nemetroid 3y ago
    > Have you ever truly come across a situation with a co-worker where there was no redeedming quality in their code review? This is irrelevant. Calling out specific parts as good is a great idea, if nothing else as clarification of what in particular it was that you didn't like. This is not what people are arguing against. In the example under discussion, the judgement of the work as a whole was "bad", while the communication on the work as a whole was "I really liked your approach". This is not pointing out redeeming qualities, it's just dishonesty.
    - johnnyanmac 3y ago
      >This is irrelevant. no, it's the entire point. Don't focus all on the bad, we're biased towards that and it's something we should always keep in mind. >In the example under discussion, the judgement of the work as a whole was "bad", exhibit A. Where in that top post was the objective judgement "bad"? As a reminder: > If you are calling out your colleagues for doing bad work, or not the way you would do it work, you should try to rephrase into praise w/ direction. “I really liked how you tackled this, have you thought about this approach?” Instead of “Why didn’t you do it this way?” We're assuming the "caller" in this case is right. When there may not be a metric of "correct approach". This is especially highlighted with "not the way you would do it". Okay, who says your way is the best way? If you cant self-introspect and understand different approaches, as well as shortcomings in your own, then yes. I would say you are that hostile worker no one wants to work with.