5 ms·

Isn't that era already basically here, except for VanMoof which was the exception?

by notJim 3y ago

hutzlibu 3y ago
Nope. Unless you mean only the core bicycle parts. Everything electronic is highly incompatible and unstandardized. Some things fit and some standards are emerging, but for others you struggle to find the right parts, or parts at all.
- serf 3y ago
  a lot of it was standardized until individual companies decided to try to divvy up a market and segment it. so many electric vehicles are running their own version of the Benjamin Vedder VESC as the primary motor controller. They change a minor feature, stop providing source, and then pretend that it's their own design. But, even so, it's all still pretty inter-changable. Nearly all BLDCs are controlled similarly. Nearly all PEVs are running hall encoders, and if they're not it's trivial to switch between hall/sin-cos/foc/whatever with nearly any modern controller, just as nearly any controller can be programmed for just about any kind of voltage source, be it lead-acid/lipo/liion/lifepo4/whatever. Things seem a lot more friendly for tinkerers now than ever in the whole PEV sphere. Improvements can always be hoped for, but same as with every industry : you should probably expect to exchange interoperability and freedom for closely-knit support and homogeneity.
doctorpangloss 3y ago
I own VanMoofs, and I live near a brand store. I also own a car, and I used to own a Stromer, which doesn't have brand stores. I can't believe anyone desires the experience of the auto mechanic, for anything. Like I know that's something that exists obviously and is something people do, like people go to normal bike shops. But it doesn't make sense. If people want to buy crappy bikes they can. There's an ecosystem for that. VanMoof's problems are complicated, there are a lot of super low information comments on HN right now. I'm not interested in people's anecdotes, and I'm not sharing any either. All I'm saying is that in my experience, with every product I've owned, the VanMoof approach has been better for me, as a consumer, and that I only hope that they figure out pricing to make it sustainable in the future.
- gonehome 3y ago
  +1 tight vertical integration leads to better products, better defaults, and better user experience in the (vast) majority of cases across most product domains. It’s sad to see them fail, hopefully someone else will be able to pull it off. I guess my $20 deposit for their faster e-bike is unlikely to ever come to anything. Maybe I should just get a used stromer.
  - chrischen 3y ago
    $20 nothing I had a fully prepaid bike order from a year ago that never shipped.
- m01 3y ago
  I wonder if your opinion would be any different if you lived further away from a brand store, maybe because you moved, or because the store moved/closed.
  - madeofpalk 3y ago
    …or because the company went bankrupt?
- jacquesm 3y ago
  How did the Stromer work for you? Was it an e-bike or s-pedelec version?

Isn't that era already basically here, except for VanMoof which was the exception?

by notJim 3y ago

Isn't that era already basically here, except for VanMoof which was the exception?

Nope. Unless you mean only the core bicycle parts. Everything electronic is highly incompatible and unstandardized. Some things fit and some standards are emerging, but for others you struggle to find the right parts, or parts at all.

serf 3y ago
a lot of it was standardized until individual companies decided to try to divvy up a market and segment it. so many electric vehicles are running their own version of the Benjamin Vedder VESC as the primary motor controller. They change a minor feature, stop providing source, and then pretend that it's their own design. But, even so, it's all still pretty inter-changable. Nearly all BLDCs are controlled similarly. Nearly all PEVs are running hall encoders, and if they're not it's trivial to switch between hall/sin-cos/foc/whatever with nearly any modern controller, just as nearly any controller can be programmed for just about any kind of voltage source, be it lead-acid/lipo/liion/lifepo4/whatever. Things seem a lot more friendly for tinkerers now than ever in the whole PEV sphere. Improvements can always be hoped for, but same as with every industry : you should probably expect to exchange interoperability and freedom for closely-knit support and homogeneity.

doctorpangloss 3y ago

I own VanMoofs, and I live near a brand store. I also own a car, and I used to own a Stromer, which doesn't have brand stores. I can't believe anyone desires the experience of the auto mechanic, for anything. Like I know that's something that exists obviously and is something people do, like people go to normal bike shops. But it doesn't make sense. If people want to buy crappy bikes they can. There's an ecosystem for that. VanMoof's problems are complicated, there are a lot of super low information comments on HN right now. I'm not interested in people's anecdotes, and I'm not sharing any either. All I'm saying is that in my experience, with every product I've owned, the VanMoof approach has been better for me, as a consumer, and that I only hope that they figure out pricing to make it sustainable in the future.

gonehome 3y ago
+1 tight vertical integration leads to better products, better defaults, and better user experience in the (vast) majority of cases across most product domains. It’s sad to see them fail, hopefully someone else will be able to pull it off. I guess my $20 deposit for their faster e-bike is unlikely to ever come to anything. Maybe I should just get a used stromer.
- chrischen 3y ago
  $20 nothing I had a fully prepaid bike order from a year ago that never shipped.
m01 3y ago
I wonder if your opinion would be any different if you lived further away from a brand store, maybe because you moved, or because the store moved/closed.
- madeofpalk 3y ago
  …or because the company went bankrupt?
jacquesm 3y ago
How did the Stromer work for you? Was it an e-bike or s-pedelec version?