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Steel and concrete aren't necessary for the most part: other materials that don't emit (or even actively sequester) carbon are available and have been for a lon

by hkt 3y ago

Steel and concrete aren't necessary for the most part: other materials that don't emit (or even actively sequester) carbon are available and have been for a long, long time. It doesn't even preclude building densely either: just look at cross laminated timber.

vel0city 3y ago
We're going to build bridges and trains and rails and roads and ships out of cross laminated timber? And yes, you can build pretty tall structures out of CLT, but there's still smaller than what you can build with steel and concrete. The tallest one built that I know of is 25 stories. But at least 6 or so of those floors are all concrete+steel, and it still uses concrete+steel emergency stairwells. https://www.fs.usda.gov/inside-fs/delivering-mission/apply/worlds-tallest-timber-building-opens https://www.fs.usda.gov/inside-fs/delivering-mission/apply/w... But what is the foundation made from? What do you think the elevator shafts are made from? Its not like its 100% wood. I would like to see more CLT construction, and modern building codes are allowing taller and larger stick construction as well, but arguing that steel and concrete aren't necessary is ignoring all the rest of the things supporting that structure along with all the other things that still need steel and concrete. How did all the building materials arrive at the site? What harvested the wood? What were the machines making the CLT made out of? What are the fireproof stairwells usually made out of? Steel and concrete. We'll probably see more and more construction which looks like this, where some CLT offsets some concrete and steel, but chances are the whole building isn't entirely wood: https://www.fs.usda.gov/sites/default/files/styles/fs_wysiwyg_width_360px/public/2022-07/apply-crosslaminatedtimberascentbuilding-wisconsin-02.jpg?itok=1rJXy9Mx https://www.fs.usda.gov/sites/default/files/styles/fs_wysiwy... Using modern materials and building codes can let us reduce our usage of things like steel and concrete for more buildings, but its not going to fully eliminate their usage in our world.
- hkt 3y ago
  For foundations, lime stabilised soil has been used in civil engineering projects for a very, very long time: https://www.geoengineer.org/education/ground-improvement/lime-stabilization https://www.geoengineer.org/education/ground-improvement/lim... As for the rest, I was referring to buildings. I don't think anything is so worthy of being built that wrecking the environment is a fair trade. Railways are an honourable exception, since they displace (far more wasteful) cars. Light rail is especially good for this. The fact is that we need to question what we build, as well as the materials used to build it.
  - anti-communist 3y ago
    [dead]

by hkt 3y ago

vel0city 3y ago

We're going to build bridges and trains and rails and roads and ships out of cross laminated timber? And yes, you can build pretty tall structures out of CLT, but there's still smaller than what you can build with steel and concrete. The tallest one built that I know of is 25 stories. But at least 6 or so of those floors are all concrete+steel, and it still uses concrete+steel emergency stairwells. https://www.fs.usda.gov/inside-fs/delivering-mission/apply/worlds-tallest-timber-building-opens https://www.fs.usda.gov/inside-fs/delivering-mission/apply/w... But what is the foundation made from? What do you think the elevator shafts are made from? Its not like its 100% wood. I would like to see more CLT construction, and modern building codes are allowing taller and larger stick construction as well, but arguing that steel and concrete aren't necessary is ignoring all the rest of the things supporting that structure along with all the other things that still need steel and concrete. How did all the building materials arrive at the site? What harvested the wood? What were the machines making the CLT made out of? What are the fireproof stairwells usually made out of? Steel and concrete. We'll probably see more and more construction which looks like this, where some CLT offsets some concrete and steel, but chances are the whole building isn't entirely wood: https://www.fs.usda.gov/sites/default/files/styles/fs_wysiwyg_width_360px/public/2022-07/apply-crosslaminatedtimberascentbuilding-wisconsin-02.jpg?itok=1rJXy9Mx https://www.fs.usda.gov/sites/default/files/styles/fs_wysiwy... Using modern materials and building codes can let us reduce our usage of things like steel and concrete for more buildings, but its not going to fully eliminate their usage in our world.

hkt 3y ago
For foundations, lime stabilised soil has been used in civil engineering projects for a very, very long time: https://www.geoengineer.org/education/ground-improvement/lime-stabilization https://www.geoengineer.org/education/ground-improvement/lim... As for the rest, I was referring to buildings. I don't think anything is so worthy of being built that wrecking the environment is a fair trade. Railways are an honourable exception, since they displace (far more wasteful) cars. Light rail is especially good for this. The fact is that we need to question what we build, as well as the materials used to build it.
- anti-communist 3y ago
  [dead]