4 ms·

I think it s impossible to hold off the oncoming onslaught of Big State powered by AI , but i think we are doing a very bad job of telling the public to prepar

by seydor 3y ago

I think it s impossible to hold off the oncoming onslaught of Big State powered by AI , but i think we are doing a very bad job of telling the public to prepare for it, starting with AI powered online manipulation

kingkawn 3y ago
The thing that AI has already made possible is a total police state. Communication analysis can now feasibly be carried out on all text/spoken dialogue transmitted within a given domain, whereas in the past it was limited by the number of human agents available for this work.
JohnFen 3y ago
I'd like to prepare for it. How?
- seydor 3y ago
  You 're probably in tech so you already know. But the public isn't even aware how easy it is to e.g. copy someone's voice with AI. The mainstream news are uninterested
  - gumballindie 3y ago
    > But the public isn't even aware how easy it is to e.g. copy someone's voice with AI. I always demo it where people are open to it, I show them how it can used to steal their banking data (that has been the case already for many years), explain how everything they do is tracked (to those a little bit savy i show them the "hidden" tracking pixels here and there), I demo how people can talk about certain topics or search on site A and then similar content is shown on site B, and so on. Spread the word, demo, explain, educate. The mainstream is interested but they don't know how it works. They imagine cabals of people in secret dark chambers when in fact it was product managers in daily standups planning and delivering all this and an all too open to corruption politicians happy to keep the maases obedient and numb.
    - fakedang 3y ago
      > when in fact it was product managers in daily standups planning and delivering all this and an all too open to corruption politicians happy to keep the maases obedient and numb. So cabals of people in secret dark chambers?
      - gumballindie 3y ago
        > So cabals of people in secret dark chambers? I don't recall people holding daily standups in dark chambers. Perhaps in a dark pub but there's nothing secret about it.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    Yes, I already know about the increased use of facial recognition. But you said that we're doing a bad job of telling people how to prepare for it. I don't know how to prepare for it, though. What should I be doing, and what should I be telling others to do?
    - seydor 3y ago
      Tell them what is possible
- gumballindie 3y ago
  Ok, I'll say it. I am actively moving away from any type of serveillance device and software, where possible of course. Moved away from the data scraping OS made by windows to linux. De google, de apple, and spread the word. There may not be much we can do against the sheer amount of public surveillance we enjoy, a level that makes the STASI and KGB pale in comparison, other than voting voting and voting. Protesting and vandalism would only ridicule any attempt. Oh and I feel that there may also be a market for people that want an online presence but in a protected way. So starting businesses around that may also help. Nothing fancy. Just simple stuff such as not tracking users and not manipulating them. Requires avoiding venture capital, and that's fine. No point in being a paper millionaire with no life anyway.
  - hedora 3y ago
    So… how do you engage in commerce, use transportation, and connect to the internet?
    - gumballindie 3y ago
      "where possible of course" This is how :-) I am not trying to live like a hermit locked in a forest. I do what is reasonable and learning more about how to do it even better.
HtmlProgrammer 3y ago
The general public won’t care until it impacts them personally. Time to buy that country estate surrounded by trees so the surveillance state can’t see the finer details of your eyes with their AI cameras
- mistrial9 3y ago
  there is no "general public" just like there is no 2.5 children. More than 1 million working adults in the USA are in uniform or under non-disclosure to security sensitive things.. you will never address those people in the same breath as lowest-common-denominator fear mongering, as is immediately and unwisely suggested here by "good" people.. oh by the way .. "caring about human rights" people will start to behave in a mob like any other mob.. in many cases.. crowds make bad decisions.. etc
- corinroyal 3y ago
  And never leave. No going to the store. No driving. No friends coming by. No servants. Every supply run is a clandestine operation. Individualist solutions don't work here. Only regulatory solutions can address the source of the problem and those require solidarity and collective action.
  - zlg_codes 3y ago
    Yeah because that's totally worked out, right? Where has technology as disruptive as 'AI' ever been defeated by regulations? That's just more rules that the rich can ignore with impunity. Western society doesn't really have real solidarity. It's a performance we go into every election season but it's just that: a performance. Society will do nothing about this until it affects the rich. As always.
- hedora 3y ago
  The surveillance state adopted to lidar decades ago, specifically because it can see through trees.
gumballindie 3y ago
Just tell folks on the right that ai is going to take their rights, freedoms and guns and let them run with it. I am not joking, the only way to "wake" people up is to leverage those that, oddly enough, have predicted many of the upcoming changes. The issues with their conspiracy theories are with the how, whom, and why. There's no cabal of folks injecting people with microcips to control them and covid wasn't it. It's just regular corporations and corrupt politicians selling them technological sweets in order to extort them for money. Easy. Let them run wild, and hopefully the left and the right find middle ground and change this trajectory.
- Barrin92 3y ago
  the logical endpoint of that is some crazy guy shooting up a pizza place, not civil society taking back control of technology pointed at them. Ever played the original Deus Ex? There's a reason Musk on his Bob Page arc loves to stoke conspiracy nonsense and it isn't because it produces effective, rational governance reigning powerful people in
  - gumballindie 3y ago
    > the logical endpoint of that is some crazy guy shooting up a pizza place That's the likely outcome if people are lead towards that outcome and if that's the only given option. And so far the only voices that validate their concerns are those that would benefit from such outcomes. Those that want a "better world" are too busy berrating those that have genuine concerns and as a result the only people they can take refuge in are those like Musk. It's time for genuine innovation and genuine conversation without losing track of the good in both sides.
    - randysalami 3y ago
      Social platform that indexes each user based on their belief system. Create a bunch of these cells, explicit echo chambers and watch people radicalize like never before. Reddit but for fascists and only fascists; Reddit but for liberals and only liberals; Reddit for communists and only communists. Each cell acts as its own social media platform similar to how Mastodon works. The primary differences are: A. Cells are centralized on the platform, not federated. Makes it easier for users. B. Cells are dynamic. People can make cells, merge cells, split cells. If 50 percent of people in the R++ cell want to be more racist, they can vote to split and be moved to another cell. C. Cells are relative i.e. they exist on a map, people can compare their cell to others, any cell that exists is public and can be related to another cell. Then provide tools for organization and communication, provide tools for policing and enforcing cell dogma, and then provide the tools to allow for fundraising of whatever causes the cell deems just. Add competition between other cells. Allow it to be integrated with other social media. Make it go viral. Powerful populist movements have been built on solidarity. This is impossible in current social media which fragments political blocs creating detractors of every belief in every comment section. Remove the detractors and you have progress, radicalization. Thoughts?

by seydor 3y ago

kingkawn 3y ago

The thing that AI has already made possible is a total police state. Communication analysis can now feasibly be carried out on all text/spoken dialogue transmitted within a given domain, whereas in the past it was limited by the number of human agents available for this work.

JohnFen 3y ago

I'd like to prepare for it. How?

seydor 3y ago
You 're probably in tech so you already know. But the public isn't even aware how easy it is to e.g. copy someone's voice with AI. The mainstream news are uninterested
- gumballindie 3y ago
  > But the public isn't even aware how easy it is to e.g. copy someone's voice with AI. I always demo it where people are open to it, I show them how it can used to steal their banking data (that has been the case already for many years), explain how everything they do is tracked (to those a little bit savy i show them the "hidden" tracking pixels here and there), I demo how people can talk about certain topics or search on site A and then similar content is shown on site B, and so on. Spread the word, demo, explain, educate. The mainstream is interested but they don't know how it works. They imagine cabals of people in secret dark chambers when in fact it was product managers in daily standups planning and delivering all this and an all too open to corruption politicians happy to keep the maases obedient and numb.
  - fakedang 3y ago
    > when in fact it was product managers in daily standups planning and delivering all this and an all too open to corruption politicians happy to keep the maases obedient and numb. So cabals of people in secret dark chambers?
    - gumballindie 3y ago
      > So cabals of people in secret dark chambers? I don't recall people holding daily standups in dark chambers. Perhaps in a dark pub but there's nothing secret about it.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  Yes, I already know about the increased use of facial recognition. But you said that we're doing a bad job of telling people how to prepare for it. I don't know how to prepare for it, though. What should I be doing, and what should I be telling others to do?
  - seydor 3y ago
    Tell them what is possible
gumballindie 3y ago
Ok, I'll say it. I am actively moving away from any type of serveillance device and software, where possible of course. Moved away from the data scraping OS made by windows to linux. De google, de apple, and spread the word. There may not be much we can do against the sheer amount of public surveillance we enjoy, a level that makes the STASI and KGB pale in comparison, other than voting voting and voting. Protesting and vandalism would only ridicule any attempt. Oh and I feel that there may also be a market for people that want an online presence but in a protected way. So starting businesses around that may also help. Nothing fancy. Just simple stuff such as not tracking users and not manipulating them. Requires avoiding venture capital, and that's fine. No point in being a paper millionaire with no life anyway.
- hedora 3y ago
  So… how do you engage in commerce, use transportation, and connect to the internet?
  - gumballindie 3y ago
    "where possible of course" This is how :-) I am not trying to live like a hermit locked in a forest. I do what is reasonable and learning more about how to do it even better.

HtmlProgrammer 3y ago

The general public won’t care until it impacts them personally. Time to buy that country estate surrounded by trees so the surveillance state can’t see the finer details of your eyes with their AI cameras

mistrial9 3y ago
there is no "general public" just like there is no 2.5 children. More than 1 million working adults in the USA are in uniform or under non-disclosure to security sensitive things.. you will never address those people in the same breath as lowest-common-denominator fear mongering, as is immediately and unwisely suggested here by "good" people.. oh by the way .. "caring about human rights" people will start to behave in a mob like any other mob.. in many cases.. crowds make bad decisions.. etc
corinroyal 3y ago
And never leave. No going to the store. No driving. No friends coming by. No servants. Every supply run is a clandestine operation. Individualist solutions don't work here. Only regulatory solutions can address the source of the problem and those require solidarity and collective action.
- zlg_codes 3y ago
  Yeah because that's totally worked out, right? Where has technology as disruptive as 'AI' ever been defeated by regulations? That's just more rules that the rich can ignore with impunity. Western society doesn't really have real solidarity. It's a performance we go into every election season but it's just that: a performance. Society will do nothing about this until it affects the rich. As always.
hedora 3y ago
The surveillance state adopted to lidar decades ago, specifically because it can see through trees.

gumballindie 3y ago

Just tell folks on the right that ai is going to take their rights, freedoms and guns and let them run with it. I am not joking, the only way to "wake" people up is to leverage those that, oddly enough, have predicted many of the upcoming changes. The issues with their conspiracy theories are with the how, whom, and why. There's no cabal of folks injecting people with microcips to control them and covid wasn't it. It's just regular corporations and corrupt politicians selling them technological sweets in order to extort them for money. Easy. Let them run wild, and hopefully the left and the right find middle ground and change this trajectory.

Barrin92 3y ago
the logical endpoint of that is some crazy guy shooting up a pizza place, not civil society taking back control of technology pointed at them. Ever played the original Deus Ex? There's a reason Musk on his Bob Page arc loves to stoke conspiracy nonsense and it isn't because it produces effective, rational governance reigning powerful people in
- gumballindie 3y ago
  > the logical endpoint of that is some crazy guy shooting up a pizza place That's the likely outcome if people are lead towards that outcome and if that's the only given option. And so far the only voices that validate their concerns are those that would benefit from such outcomes. Those that want a "better world" are too busy berrating those that have genuine concerns and as a result the only people they can take refuge in are those like Musk. It's time for genuine innovation and genuine conversation without losing track of the good in both sides.
  - randysalami 3y ago
    Social platform that indexes each user based on their belief system. Create a bunch of these cells, explicit echo chambers and watch people radicalize like never before. Reddit but for fascists and only fascists; Reddit but for liberals and only liberals; Reddit for communists and only communists. Each cell acts as its own social media platform similar to how Mastodon works. The primary differences are: A. Cells are centralized on the platform, not federated. Makes it easier for users. B. Cells are dynamic. People can make cells, merge cells, split cells. If 50 percent of people in the R++ cell want to be more racist, they can vote to split and be moved to another cell. C. Cells are relative i.e. they exist on a map, people can compare their cell to others, any cell that exists is public and can be related to another cell. Then provide tools for organization and communication, provide tools for policing and enforcing cell dogma, and then provide the tools to allow for fundraising of whatever causes the cell deems just. Add competition between other cells. Allow it to be integrated with other social media. Make it go viral. Powerful populist movements have been built on solidarity. This is impossible in current social media which fragments political blocs creating detractors of every belief in every comment section. Remove the detractors and you have progress, radicalization. Thoughts?