5 ms·

Tell that to their victims. The only downside to capital punishment is that it's possible to wrongly convict someone. Other than that, there are crimes that peo

Tell that to their victims. The only downside to capital punishment is that it's possible to wrongly convict someone. Other than that, there are crimes that people commit where you can never trust them to be safe around people again. In that case, capital punishment is perfectly justified in my mind. The idea that keeping them in prison for life is somehow more humane is silly. The rest of the world is letting crime run rampant on their streets through lenient sentencing, and destroy their society (you're starting to see this in big US cities as well). So, I think I'll pass on this idea that the rest of the western world has it figured out.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
anigbrowl 3y ago
The rest of the world is letting crime run rampant on their streets through lenient sentencing, and destroy their society LMAO
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
simonh 3y ago
Do you think that all or most the crimes condemned prisoners in the US are currently convicted of actually rise to the level where you agree that it's appropriate? >The rest of the world is letting crime run rampant on their streets through lenient sentencing... There is extensive evidence that the severity of punishment has very little to no effect on crime rates. It's simply not something criminals generally consider when actually committing crimes.
- crazygecko 3y ago
  that's because most of the "criminals" who end in prison are really victims of their society which failed them; their actions are usually impulsive, not calculated, so deterrence is largely useless. True criminals (those who do shit in cold blood for money and power) rarely go to prison.
notaustinpowers 3y ago
How much of the increase in violent crimes is not due to a leniency of capital punishment, but due to no effort in actual rehabilitation due to city/state/federal cost-cutting measures? Privatizing prison builds an economic model that incentivizes creating repeat offenders. Withholding or making rehabilitation unattainable for the majority benefits the prison, but offers zero benefit for America as a society.
darkerside 3y ago
I'd say that extinguishing the sense of hope in a reformed human being is also a downside, but that's because I have a shred of empathy.
HelloMcFly 3y ago
> The only downside to capital punishment is that it's possible to wrongly convict someone. Other than that... For many, myself included, there is no "other than that." My core and unbending opposition to capital punishments exists solely on the fact that the punishment is irreversible and there's too many documented cases where executed prisoners were likely wrongfully convicted. I could perhaps support capital punishment if we had a higher level of guilt we could establish in our legal system reserved only where the evidence is entirely(!) unequivocal for particularly heinous crimes. I don't know exactly what that means, and is probably just another bad idea.
- Ferret7446 3y ago
  I don't think it's that clear cut. Imprisoning someone for 40 years and then exonerating them can be reasonably considered a far crueler punishment than death sentence.
- pseg134 3y ago
  There are so many systems where some innocent people dying are just accepted and expected that it always confuses me why this one is so special. What is it about the justice system that makes you demand perfection where medicine, the military everyone else can just shrug and say sometimes an innocent person dies.
  - tough 3y ago
    Justice was supposed to be blind and oh well, -just-
  - RavingGoat 3y ago
    For me, it's the incompetence and level of corruption in the US justice system starting at the police level on up. I have very little faith in it.
  - wonderwonder 3y ago
    Because in this case its the government killing its own citizens. Medicine is human error, one person with no more legal power than the victim made the mistake. The military kills people but they are not citizens (that sounds terrible and it very much is, I am not excusing the deaths of innocents). With death row mistakes, you have the full weight of the United states government using its power to kill one of its own citizens. In addition, its a long process where the person that dies for a crime they did not commit has to witness their life taken from them one step at a time due to compounding failures. It can also happen to anyone which is the frightening part, a government actor (police, prosecutor, judge, etc) can just decide that you fit the bill and take your life from you. I am very much in favor of executing the worst criminals but I find myself generally against the death penalty due to the risk of executing an innocent person. I am conflicted and find myself moving back and forth on this topic.
postexitus 3y ago
This is the same argument as there may be valid reasons to curbing free speech. Once you start going down that route, there is no end. You say death penalty is reserved for the worst of the worst and only if we are 100% sure they committed the crime, the next one in line would say it may be suitable for more and when we are 90% sure of the crime. How come it is different from Sharia law, which demands a hand for theft and eye for infidelity - some can say those are also justified. All punishment that's irreversible and violates one's body should be banned. On your second argument - if death penalty had the very least effect of turning people away from crime, USA would have much better crime stats than "rest of the western world". Most criminals operating at that level (murder, rape etc.) operate on the assumption that they will never be caught.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

anigbrowl 3y ago

The rest of the world is letting crime run rampant on their streets through lenient sentencing, and destroy their society LMAO

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

simonh 3y ago

Do you think that all or most the crimes condemned prisoners in the US are currently convicted of actually rise to the level where you agree that it's appropriate? >The rest of the world is letting crime run rampant on their streets through lenient sentencing... There is extensive evidence that the severity of punishment has very little to no effect on crime rates. It's simply not something criminals generally consider when actually committing crimes.

crazygecko 3y ago
that's because most of the "criminals" who end in prison are really victims of their society which failed them; their actions are usually impulsive, not calculated, so deterrence is largely useless. True criminals (those who do shit in cold blood for money and power) rarely go to prison.

notaustinpowers 3y ago

How much of the increase in violent crimes is not due to a leniency of capital punishment, but due to no effort in actual rehabilitation due to city/state/federal cost-cutting measures? Privatizing prison builds an economic model that incentivizes creating repeat offenders. Withholding or making rehabilitation unattainable for the majority benefits the prison, but offers zero benefit for America as a society.

darkerside 3y ago

I'd say that extinguishing the sense of hope in a reformed human being is also a downside, but that's because I have a shred of empathy.

HelloMcFly 3y ago

> The only downside to capital punishment is that it's possible to wrongly convict someone. Other than that... For many, myself included, there is no "other than that." My core and unbending opposition to capital punishments exists solely on the fact that the punishment is irreversible and there's too many documented cases where executed prisoners were likely wrongfully convicted. I could perhaps support capital punishment if we had a higher level of guilt we could establish in our legal system reserved only where the evidence is entirely(!) unequivocal for particularly heinous crimes. I don't know exactly what that means, and is probably just another bad idea.

Ferret7446 3y ago
I don't think it's that clear cut. Imprisoning someone for 40 years and then exonerating them can be reasonably considered a far crueler punishment than death sentence.
pseg134 3y ago
There are so many systems where some innocent people dying are just accepted and expected that it always confuses me why this one is so special. What is it about the justice system that makes you demand perfection where medicine, the military everyone else can just shrug and say sometimes an innocent person dies.
- tough 3y ago
  Justice was supposed to be blind and oh well, -just-
- RavingGoat 3y ago
  For me, it's the incompetence and level of corruption in the US justice system starting at the police level on up. I have very little faith in it.
- wonderwonder 3y ago
  Because in this case its the government killing its own citizens. Medicine is human error, one person with no more legal power than the victim made the mistake. The military kills people but they are not citizens (that sounds terrible and it very much is, I am not excusing the deaths of innocents). With death row mistakes, you have the full weight of the United states government using its power to kill one of its own citizens. In addition, its a long process where the person that dies for a crime they did not commit has to witness their life taken from them one step at a time due to compounding failures. It can also happen to anyone which is the frightening part, a government actor (police, prosecutor, judge, etc) can just decide that you fit the bill and take your life from you. I am very much in favor of executing the worst criminals but I find myself generally against the death penalty due to the risk of executing an innocent person. I am conflicted and find myself moving back and forth on this topic.

postexitus 3y ago

This is the same argument as there may be valid reasons to curbing free speech. Once you start going down that route, there is no end. You say death penalty is reserved for the worst of the worst and only if we are 100% sure they committed the crime, the next one in line would say it may be suitable for more and when we are 90% sure of the crime. How come it is different from Sharia law, which demands a hand for theft and eye for infidelity - some can say those are also justified. All punishment that's irreversible and violates one's body should be banned. On your second argument - if death penalty had the very least effect of turning people away from crime, USA would have much better crime stats than "rest of the western world". Most criminals operating at that level (murder, rape etc.) operate on the assumption that they will never be caught.