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Do you think Canada doesn't "serve and protect the [Canadian] people"? Do you think Canada rolls out the red carpet to people with criminal backgrounds? Canada

Do you think Canada doesn't "serve and protect the [Canadian] people"? Do you think Canada rolls out the red carpet to people with criminal backgrounds? Canada just chooses to welcome skilled immigrants, whereas the US has an immigration prohibition. See: https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis/why-legal-immigration-nearly-impossible https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis/why-legal-immigration-n... Canada also has a ranking system that picks the best immigrants with the highest scores (unlike the lotteries the US relies on). But charging immigrants a higher tax rate is discrimination, 100%. Your comment is baseless, and entirely invalid.

nick__m 3y ago
The problem with the Canadian way is that we allow family reunification. As a Canadian taxpayer I don't want to pay for the economic emigrants parents and grandparents social security and health care. For the refugees, I have no problem with family reunification because if the situation is bad enough to qualify for our humanitarian refugee program, chances are that it's also bad enough for the rest of that migrant family.
- winter_blue 3y ago
  Canada only allows 28,500 parents and grandparents[1] as permanent residents per year (and that limit was 20,000 until recently). That's just 6% of the total immigration target. There is a temporary visa for parents and grandparents, but there is no access healthcare with it, which is serious matter[2][3][4]. For example: > She says he needs a different type of care and has even offered to pay out of pocket, but she can’t get him into a long-term care home without an OHIP number. Did you bother to google Canada's family immigration laws? [1] https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/news/notices/supplementary-immigration-levels-2023-2025.html https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/ne... [2] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/citizenship-immigration-ohip-elderly-nursing-care-1.4059150 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/citizenship-immigrati... [3] https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/kingston-ont-woman-fighting-for-palliative-care-for-father-who-is-ineligible-for-ohip-1.5849611 https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/kingston-ont-woman-fighting-for-pa... [4] https://www.thewhig.com/news/local-news/no-ohip-no-health-care-kingston-man-struggles-to-access-long-term-care-due-to-immigration-status https://www.thewhig.com/news/local-news/no-ohip-no-health-ca...
  - nick__m 3y ago
    I read a few pages on canada.ca and you are right they don't become citizens they obtain a "super visa" and are forced to buy a medical insurance from a Canadian provider.¹ I have no more opposition to the reunification program ! 1) https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/temporary-residents/visitors/super-visa.html https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/co...
    - winter_blue 3y ago
      It's pretty sad that you rejoice in other people being treated badly (or unfairly). With a 200k CAD income, I'm likely[1] a top 10% earner. Most immigrants to Canada likely earn more than the average Canadian, since the Canadian immigration system heavy selects for high-skilled individuals with. So, considering skilled immigrants' tax contributions are likely quite a bit higher, don't immigrants' parents deserve to have full access to free healthcare? [1] The statistics top out at 100k: https://www.statista.com/statistics/464262/percentage-distribution-of-earnings-in-canada-by-level-of-income/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/464262/percentage-distri...
Gareth321 3y ago
You continue to argue discrimination is wrong. I explained that it's not wrong, prima facie. There are good reasons to discriminate. I don't think the Canadian government is serving and protecting Canadians. The Canadian government welcomed a million new migrants last year, into a country suffering one of the worst housing crises in the West. It's clear that not all Canadian immigrants are skilled, with reports that 95% of food bank service is to migrants (https://tnc.news/2023/08/08/food-bank-reports-95-of-users-not-born-in-canada/ https://tnc.news/2023/08/08/food-bank-reports-95-of-users-no...). I agree with a points based system, but there are clearly many structural issues to the Canadian system.
- winter_blue 3y ago
  > A total of 95% of those relying on Feed Scarborough were not born in the country, while 72% had only been in Canada a year or less. I wonder how they collected these statistics. Do food banks seriously hand out forms asking people to fill out (a) their country of birth, (b) how long they'd lived in Canada? Conservatives and right-wing media in general have shown a proclivity towards making up false statistics and false numbers, if it advances some conservative cause. For example, fake scientific papers denying climate change, or fabricated (un)scientific papers saying that the COVID vaccine is somehow dangerous. I would not trust data someone puts forward blindly. I agree with the sibling comment that: > Anecdotally, I’m an immigrant in Canada, and every other immigrant I’ve ever met is comfortably in the top half of society income-wise, with the majority in the top 10%. This is true in my case as well.
- FredPret 3y ago
  95% of food bank users are immigrants… but what % of immigrants are food bank users? Your link also says 65% of food bank users are students. Anecdotally, I’m an immigrant in Canada, and every other immigrant I’ve ever met is comfortably in the top half of society income-wise, with the majority in the top 10%.
Auracle 3y ago
I would argue that "For the year 2022, Canada welcomed 437,180 immigrants and saw a net increase of the number of non-permanent residents estimated at 607,782." Combined with "About 286,000 new homes are currently built each year, according to 2021 data from the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation. But the country's housing supply is not keeping up with population growth." Is absolutely not serving the Canadian people when their home prices are completely unaffordable to a growing number of their population. It also suppresses wages for their own skilled citizens. I do think importing skilled immigrants is a good long term strategy for their country, but they should tone it down a notch until housing prices are better.
- winter_blue 3y ago
  The housing shortage is an issue caused by restrictions on building housing. This is supply side problem. There is restrictive zoning laws, inordinate red tape, extremely high development charges (taxes), super long delays, NIMBYism in general, that all contribute to the Canadian housing shortage crisis. Immigration is demand side thing. The solution to the housing crisis is to not to try to mess with demand, but to increase supply. Whenever I look at the Reddit history of a person attacking immigration by bringing up housing, I almost invariably see comments full of racism, xenophobia, a hatred of non-European-origin people/cultures, etc. > suppresses wages This statement is wrong, yet abusively often repeated. North America's population went from a few million to a few hundred million in a few centuries. Wages in North America should close to zero if this statement were a true axiom.
  - Auracle 3y ago
    "The solution to the housing crisis is to not to try to mess with demand, but to increase supply." Why? Why should we only worry about supply, especially when that's a much, much harder issue to tackle? I live in a rural part of the US. There are no real zoning laws to speak of, red tape, high taxes, delays, NIMBYism, etc. None. Zero. Yet our house prices have also surged. My parents were able to afford 60 acres on a construction worker's (single) salary back in the 80s. My wife and I both have degrees and we could afford 15 acres with a much worse house, and that was 10 years ago. My wife's brother just bought a house for more than we spent. It's in town, which is undesirable around here, on a regular in-town sized plot. The house is half of our home's size and needs a lot of work. Yet it's 25% more than what we paid with a much higher interest rate. You people in cities always think it's all that red tape you have, but the problem is a lot simpler. There are more people than ever and housing supply hasn't kept up with demand. That is something the Canadian and US governments could fix going forward incredibly easily, without somehow finding 4x the home builders we currently have. > Whenever I look at the Reddit history of a person attacking immigration by bringing up housing, I almost invariably see comments full of racism, xenophobia, a hatred of non-European-origin people/cultures, etc. Ad hominem. I'm sure racists bring it up, just as it seems everyone else is afraid to bring it up for seeming like they're racists. > This statement is wrong, yet abusively often repeated. North America's population went from a few million to a few hundred million in a few centuries. Wages in North America should close to zero if this statement were a true axiom. That's an incredibly silly argument, and I don't know where to start. Again you're ignoring basic supply and demand. If immigrants didn't suppress wages, companies wouldn't bother hiring them. If they need 10 coders in a department and can't get enough, they'd have to raise their starting wage to entice more potential workers. If they can get 6 and fill the rest with immigrants they don't need to do that. That's so basic I felt silly typing it on here.

nick__m 3y ago

The problem with the Canadian way is that we allow family reunification. As a Canadian taxpayer I don't want to pay for the economic emigrants parents and grandparents social security and health care. For the refugees, I have no problem with family reunification because if the situation is bad enough to qualify for our humanitarian refugee program, chances are that it's also bad enough for the rest of that migrant family.

winter_blue 3y ago
Canada only allows 28,500 parents and grandparents[1] as permanent residents per year (and that limit was 20,000 until recently). That's just 6% of the total immigration target. There is a temporary visa for parents and grandparents, but there is no access healthcare with it, which is serious matter[2][3][4]. For example: > She says he needs a different type of care and has even offered to pay out of pocket, but she can’t get him into a long-term care home without an OHIP number. Did you bother to google Canada's family immigration laws? [1] https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/news/notices/supplementary-immigration-levels-2023-2025.html https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/ne... [2] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/citizenship-immigration-ohip-elderly-nursing-care-1.4059150 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/citizenship-immigrati... [3] https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/kingston-ont-woman-fighting-for-palliative-care-for-father-who-is-ineligible-for-ohip-1.5849611 https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/kingston-ont-woman-fighting-for-pa... [4] https://www.thewhig.com/news/local-news/no-ohip-no-health-care-kingston-man-struggles-to-access-long-term-care-due-to-immigration-status https://www.thewhig.com/news/local-news/no-ohip-no-health-ca...
- nick__m 3y ago
  I read a few pages on canada.ca and you are right they don't become citizens they obtain a "super visa" and are forced to buy a medical insurance from a Canadian provider.¹ I have no more opposition to the reunification program ! 1) https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/temporary-residents/visitors/super-visa.html https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/co...
  - winter_blue 3y ago
    It's pretty sad that you rejoice in other people being treated badly (or unfairly). With a 200k CAD income, I'm likely[1] a top 10% earner. Most immigrants to Canada likely earn more than the average Canadian, since the Canadian immigration system heavy selects for high-skilled individuals with. So, considering skilled immigrants' tax contributions are likely quite a bit higher, don't immigrants' parents deserve to have full access to free healthcare? [1] The statistics top out at 100k: https://www.statista.com/statistics/464262/percentage-distribution-of-earnings-in-canada-by-level-of-income/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/464262/percentage-distri...

Gareth321 3y ago

You continue to argue discrimination is wrong. I explained that it's not wrong, prima facie. There are good reasons to discriminate. I don't think the Canadian government is serving and protecting Canadians. The Canadian government welcomed a million new migrants last year, into a country suffering one of the worst housing crises in the West. It's clear that not all Canadian immigrants are skilled, with reports that 95% of food bank service is to migrants (https://tnc.news/2023/08/08/food-bank-reports-95-of-users-not-born-in-canada/ https://tnc.news/2023/08/08/food-bank-reports-95-of-users-no...). I agree with a points based system, but there are clearly many structural issues to the Canadian system.

winter_blue 3y ago
> A total of 95% of those relying on Feed Scarborough were not born in the country, while 72% had only been in Canada a year or less. I wonder how they collected these statistics. Do food banks seriously hand out forms asking people to fill out (a) their country of birth, (b) how long they'd lived in Canada? Conservatives and right-wing media in general have shown a proclivity towards making up false statistics and false numbers, if it advances some conservative cause. For example, fake scientific papers denying climate change, or fabricated (un)scientific papers saying that the COVID vaccine is somehow dangerous. I would not trust data someone puts forward blindly. I agree with the sibling comment that: > Anecdotally, I’m an immigrant in Canada, and every other immigrant I’ve ever met is comfortably in the top half of society income-wise, with the majority in the top 10%. This is true in my case as well.
FredPret 3y ago
95% of food bank users are immigrants… but what % of immigrants are food bank users? Your link also says 65% of food bank users are students. Anecdotally, I’m an immigrant in Canada, and every other immigrant I’ve ever met is comfortably in the top half of society income-wise, with the majority in the top 10%.

Auracle 3y ago

I would argue that "For the year 2022, Canada welcomed 437,180 immigrants and saw a net increase of the number of non-permanent residents estimated at 607,782." Combined with "About 286,000 new homes are currently built each year, according to 2021 data from the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation. But the country's housing supply is not keeping up with population growth." Is absolutely not serving the Canadian people when their home prices are completely unaffordable to a growing number of their population. It also suppresses wages for their own skilled citizens. I do think importing skilled immigrants is a good long term strategy for their country, but they should tone it down a notch until housing prices are better.

winter_blue 3y ago
The housing shortage is an issue caused by restrictions on building housing. This is supply side problem. There is restrictive zoning laws, inordinate red tape, extremely high development charges (taxes), super long delays, NIMBYism in general, that all contribute to the Canadian housing shortage crisis. Immigration is demand side thing. The solution to the housing crisis is to not to try to mess with demand, but to increase supply. Whenever I look at the Reddit history of a person attacking immigration by bringing up housing, I almost invariably see comments full of racism, xenophobia, a hatred of non-European-origin people/cultures, etc. > suppresses wages This statement is wrong, yet abusively often repeated. North America's population went from a few million to a few hundred million in a few centuries. Wages in North America should close to zero if this statement were a true axiom.
- Auracle 3y ago
  "The solution to the housing crisis is to not to try to mess with demand, but to increase supply." Why? Why should we only worry about supply, especially when that's a much, much harder issue to tackle? I live in a rural part of the US. There are no real zoning laws to speak of, red tape, high taxes, delays, NIMBYism, etc. None. Zero. Yet our house prices have also surged. My parents were able to afford 60 acres on a construction worker's (single) salary back in the 80s. My wife and I both have degrees and we could afford 15 acres with a much worse house, and that was 10 years ago. My wife's brother just bought a house for more than we spent. It's in town, which is undesirable around here, on a regular in-town sized plot. The house is half of our home's size and needs a lot of work. Yet it's 25% more than what we paid with a much higher interest rate. You people in cities always think it's all that red tape you have, but the problem is a lot simpler. There are more people than ever and housing supply hasn't kept up with demand. That is something the Canadian and US governments could fix going forward incredibly easily, without somehow finding 4x the home builders we currently have. > Whenever I look at the Reddit history of a person attacking immigration by bringing up housing, I almost invariably see comments full of racism, xenophobia, a hatred of non-European-origin people/cultures, etc. Ad hominem. I'm sure racists bring it up, just as it seems everyone else is afraid to bring it up for seeming like they're racists. > This statement is wrong, yet abusively often repeated. North America's population went from a few million to a few hundred million in a few centuries. Wages in North America should close to zero if this statement were a true axiom. That's an incredibly silly argument, and I don't know where to start. Again you're ignoring basic supply and demand. If immigrants didn't suppress wages, companies wouldn't bother hiring them. If they need 10 coders in a department and can't get enough, they'd have to raise their starting wage to entice more potential workers. If they can get 6 and fill the rest with immigrants they don't need to do that. That's so basic I felt silly typing it on here.