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It is anti competitive because it destroys the potential market for others. The correct course of action is to have an API that allows other apps to integrate

It is anti competitive because it destroys the potential market for others. The correct course of action is to have an API that allows other apps to integrate and provide this feature in Office. To give an example, Google, when adding storage APIs to Android KitKat worked closely with competitors to Google Drive to ensure that the storage API worked with third party providers. Google are not perfect, but that is a fine example of the right general idea.

ballenf 3y ago
But it seems to be in denial that markets evolve. Smartphones include features that have relegated to niche markets the consumer camera market, consumer dictation equipment, mp3 players, navigation devices, etc.
kwanbix 3y ago
And why are all the other office suites allowed to have video/chat?
- nicce 3y ago
  How many office suites like that there are competitive for Word et al.?
  - 542458 3y ago
    Google, for one. They have integrated chat, and a capable document platform.
    - avianlyric 3y ago
      I don’t think any of Googles many abortive chat applications are ever a good example of company acting anti-competitively. Honestly Google seemed to have made a sport out of shooting themselves in the foot. With regards to Google’s productivity suite vs Office. Googles stuff is very impressive, but honestly not even in the same league as Office. Googles stuff is pretty useless for anything beyond pretty basic editing, and I say that as some that used Googles offerings extensively in a professional environment for many years.
    - nicce 3y ago
      I didn't think Google as comparable, since there is fully featured free tier for documenting. For Word, Teams and so on, there is not.
  - kwanbix 3y ago
    Google for sure. Zoho may be a distant.
542458 3y ago
Companies undermine potential markets for others all the time - that’s what adding new features does. Facebook adding chat was a huge blow to MSN messenger. Reddit adding image uploads natively to their platform was a huge blow to third party image hosts. Excel adding python scripting is a huge blow for a large class of data analysis tools. And yes, O365 adding chat was a big blow for Slack. But I think Teams' displacing Slack has more to do with the fact that Slack doesn't offer value equivalent to it's fairly high price. There are lots of features in O365 that never disrupted "premium priced" competitors - BaseCamp exists despite O365 ToDo, project management tools exist despite O365 Planner, etc.
- avianlyric 3y ago
  The difference is that Office has almost complete market dominance in productivity suite space. Using that dominance in one market to crush competitors in an unrelated market is generally a big no-no. It doesn’t result in better products or better prices, it just allows a company to abuse more customers. You claim that Slack doesn’t offer enough value to justify its price, then why did people pay for before? Teams is cheaper, sure. But is that because it’s actually cheaper to operate, or is it because Office is a giant cash cow, and Microsoft are subsidising Teams pricing with Office profits? Teams is quite clearly a separate product to Word or Excel. Both Teams and Office represent entirely distinct products that are fully featured and can be used completely independently of each other without any real loss of functionality. There’s no reason why they should be bundled, Office was perfectly profitable without Teams for many decades. It not even vaguely the same as Excel adding Python support, Facebook adding chat, or Reddit adding image uploads.
  - kiratp 3y ago
    > Using that dominance in one market to crush competitors in an unrelated market is generally a big no-no. Phone lines have always been part of a functional office. Not sure how you can argue that communications (voice, video, screen share) is not part of a modern, WFH enabled office suite.
    - deleted 3y ago
johngladtj 3y ago
Are you also in favor of unbundling office chairs from their wheels? After all it's uncompetitive behavior preventing the development of a booming chair wheel industry
- fatfingerd 3y ago
  Sure, I love standard wheel sizes since it prevents me from having to throw away the chair. I also like the integration in android to share/print/BT transmit with whichever chat app I have installed, though obviously all these apps should be replaced with google talk plus circles for teams.

ballenf 3y ago

But it seems to be in denial that markets evolve. Smartphones include features that have relegated to niche markets the consumer camera market, consumer dictation equipment, mp3 players, navigation devices, etc.

kwanbix 3y ago

And why are all the other office suites allowed to have video/chat?

nicce 3y ago
How many office suites like that there are competitive for Word et al.?
- 542458 3y ago
  Google, for one. They have integrated chat, and a capable document platform.
  - avianlyric 3y ago
    I don’t think any of Googles many abortive chat applications are ever a good example of company acting anti-competitively. Honestly Google seemed to have made a sport out of shooting themselves in the foot. With regards to Google’s productivity suite vs Office. Googles stuff is very impressive, but honestly not even in the same league as Office. Googles stuff is pretty useless for anything beyond pretty basic editing, and I say that as some that used Googles offerings extensively in a professional environment for many years.
  - nicce 3y ago
    I didn't think Google as comparable, since there is fully featured free tier for documenting. For Word, Teams and so on, there is not.
- kwanbix 3y ago
  Google for sure. Zoho may be a distant.

542458 3y ago

Companies undermine potential markets for others all the time - that’s what adding new features does. Facebook adding chat was a huge blow to MSN messenger. Reddit adding image uploads natively to their platform was a huge blow to third party image hosts. Excel adding python scripting is a huge blow for a large class of data analysis tools. And yes, O365 adding chat was a big blow for Slack. But I think Teams' displacing Slack has more to do with the fact that Slack doesn't offer value equivalent to it's fairly high price. There are lots of features in O365 that never disrupted "premium priced" competitors - BaseCamp exists despite O365 ToDo, project management tools exist despite O365 Planner, etc.

avianlyric 3y ago
The difference is that Office has almost complete market dominance in productivity suite space. Using that dominance in one market to crush competitors in an unrelated market is generally a big no-no. It doesn’t result in better products or better prices, it just allows a company to abuse more customers. You claim that Slack doesn’t offer enough value to justify its price, then why did people pay for before? Teams is cheaper, sure. But is that because it’s actually cheaper to operate, or is it because Office is a giant cash cow, and Microsoft are subsidising Teams pricing with Office profits? Teams is quite clearly a separate product to Word or Excel. Both Teams and Office represent entirely distinct products that are fully featured and can be used completely independently of each other without any real loss of functionality. There’s no reason why they should be bundled, Office was perfectly profitable without Teams for many decades. It not even vaguely the same as Excel adding Python support, Facebook adding chat, or Reddit adding image uploads.
- kiratp 3y ago
  > Using that dominance in one market to crush competitors in an unrelated market is generally a big no-no. Phone lines have always been part of a functional office. Not sure how you can argue that communications (voice, video, screen share) is not part of a modern, WFH enabled office suite.
  - deleted 3y ago

johngladtj 3y ago

Are you also in favor of unbundling office chairs from their wheels? After all it's uncompetitive behavior preventing the development of a booming chair wheel industry

fatfingerd 3y ago
Sure, I love standard wheel sizes since it prevents me from having to throw away the chair. I also like the integration in android to share/print/BT transmit with whichever chat app I have installed, though obviously all these apps should be replaced with google talk plus circles for teams.