4 ms·

Given their history of legal troubles I was pretty surprised at how brazen Microsoft was with bundling Teams into Office for free, a move that looks a whole lot

Given their history of legal troubles I was pretty surprised at how brazen Microsoft was with bundling Teams into Office for free, a move that looks a whole lot like dumping. Remember, these are the guys who destroyed the market for paid web browsers (and almost killed the open web along with it) when they bundled IE into Windows back in the day. Notably Brad Smith was their chief counsel back then and he still is now - he's gotten a promotion to President in fact.

outside1234 3y ago
Apple, Google, Facebook - they are all bundling products - why should Microsoft be different? Asked another way, why is Apple allowed to bundle Music with the iPhone, but Microsoft is not allowed to bundle Teams with Office?
- throw_nbvc1234 3y ago
  It's because of the outcome not the action itself. Apple bundling music with iPhone doesn't risk putting multiple public companies out of business. If Apple partnered with google (and maybe Microsoft/Windows) to bundle apple music into Android you'd probably have a stronger case.
dave7 3y ago
From a certain angle it looks like they're currently trying to destroy the market for paid video games in a similar manner with extreme bundling/giving away.
- delfinom 3y ago
  Hah, everyone was towards that direction even before Microsoft did Game Pass. Wall St wants fiefdoms, every company is forced to turn everything into a subscription model. Sony didn't help as they are notoriously buying exclusivity with every single game they could (which has worked in their favor)
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
formerly_proven 3y ago
> Notably Brad Smith was their chief counsel back then and he still is now - he's gotten a promotion to President in fact. All of that stuff back then had basically no consequences, which is probably why MS continues to increase their anti-competitive behavior. They will continue to do so until there are consequences, obviously.
matthewfelgate 3y ago
Microsoft have gotten away with it in the past. Bundling is basically their modus operandi.
petesergeant 3y ago
Looks like they got away with it too? Teams is now something people use. The fine (if there ends up being one) probably won't come close to costing MS what dumping Teams on customers brought them in value.
fidotron 3y ago
In the case of Internet Explorer it did at least start as a technically decent product, which I have never seen anyone claim about Teams. The later atrophy is a prime example of the long term problems with this behaviour though.
- dathinab 3y ago
  Idk. Teams video calls have always issues, but the also tend to always work after some fiddling something I can't say in my experience about either Zoom and Slack which both sometimes plain out refused to work no matter what was tried. Not saying that market power abuse is in any form right. Actually I would argue it's wrong no matter how technically decent the product is.
dathinab 3y ago
> Given their history of legal troubles I was pretty surprised at how brazen Microsoft I mean they won right? The competitive advantage the bundling has given them is enormous. And while un-bundling it now will stop "additional benefits" it won't in any form remove the benefits they already got. E.g. companies which are on a bundled plan and use both are now used to it and their cross integrations (which won't go away) so as long as it's price wise competitive with other solutions they likely will keep it and now pay for both. As long as anit-monpoly low doesn't 1) penalizes based on the long term benefits gained 2) shifts more to anti-massiv-power-abuse laws in their phrasing/formulation/public discourse we will just see stuff like that happening again and again. We sadly life in a world where huge companies braking the law is the norm as long as it's expected to yield them noticeable more money then the fall out through penalties and publicity. And that isn't just limited to vague laws like monopoly power abuse, e.g. Ubers operation is quite not so fully legal in a lot of countries.

outside1234 3y ago

Apple, Google, Facebook - they are all bundling products - why should Microsoft be different? Asked another way, why is Apple allowed to bundle Music with the iPhone, but Microsoft is not allowed to bundle Teams with Office?

throw_nbvc1234 3y ago
It's because of the outcome not the action itself. Apple bundling music with iPhone doesn't risk putting multiple public companies out of business. If Apple partnered with google (and maybe Microsoft/Windows) to bundle apple music into Android you'd probably have a stronger case.

dave7 3y ago

From a certain angle it looks like they're currently trying to destroy the market for paid video games in a similar manner with extreme bundling/giving away.

delfinom 3y ago
Hah, everyone was towards that direction even before Microsoft did Game Pass. Wall St wants fiefdoms, every company is forced to turn everything into a subscription model. Sony didn't help as they are notoriously buying exclusivity with every single game they could (which has worked in their favor)
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

formerly_proven 3y ago

> Notably Brad Smith was their chief counsel back then and he still is now - he's gotten a promotion to President in fact. All of that stuff back then had basically no consequences, which is probably why MS continues to increase their anti-competitive behavior. They will continue to do so until there are consequences, obviously.

matthewfelgate 3y ago

Microsoft have gotten away with it in the past. Bundling is basically their modus operandi.

petesergeant 3y ago

Looks like they got away with it too? Teams is now something people use. The fine (if there ends up being one) probably won't come close to costing MS what dumping Teams on customers brought them in value.

fidotron 3y ago

In the case of Internet Explorer it did at least start as a technically decent product, which I have never seen anyone claim about Teams. The later atrophy is a prime example of the long term problems with this behaviour though.

dathinab 3y ago
Idk. Teams video calls have always issues, but the also tend to always work after some fiddling something I can't say in my experience about either Zoom and Slack which both sometimes plain out refused to work no matter what was tried. Not saying that market power abuse is in any form right. Actually I would argue it's wrong no matter how technically decent the product is.

dathinab 3y ago

> Given their history of legal troubles I was pretty surprised at how brazen Microsoft I mean they won right? The competitive advantage the bundling has given them is enormous. And while un-bundling it now will stop "additional benefits" it won't in any form remove the benefits they already got. E.g. companies which are on a bundled plan and use both are now used to it and their cross integrations (which won't go away) so as long as it's price wise competitive with other solutions they likely will keep it and now pay for both. As long as anit-monpoly low doesn't 1) penalizes based on the long term benefits gained 2) shifts more to anti-massiv-power-abuse laws in their phrasing/formulation/public discourse we will just see stuff like that happening again and again. We sadly life in a world where huge companies braking the law is the norm as long as it's expected to yield them noticeable more money then the fall out through penalties and publicity. And that isn't just limited to vague laws like monopoly power abuse, e.g. Ubers operation is quite not so fully legal in a lot of countries.