6 ms·

I looked at the study (https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/15/17/3795 https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/15/17/3795) and you're right. As far as I can tell the data sou

I looked at the study (https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/15/17/3795 https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/15/17/3795) and you're right. As far as I can tell the data source asks people to recall the food they ate on a previous day. The authors are aware of this limitation - they write that "One limitation of this work is that it was based on 1-day diet recalls, so our results do not represent usual intake." But on the other hand the abstract ends "Efforts to address climate change through diet modification could benefit from targeting campaigns to the highest consumers of beef, as their consumption accounts for half of all beef consumed" which implies that they're thinking of this as being a consistent group. What they've shown is that there are 12% of person-days that represent half of all the beef-eating (subject to that their data is based on people remembering what they ate) - but that doesn't mean that those 12% of person-days are concentrated among 12% of people. I'm sure that 50% of the beef is eaten by less than 50% of the people, but it's probably more like 30% than 12%.

x86x87 3y ago
I am tired of this people "shamming"/virtue signalling. You have a handful of corporations fucking up the environment but let's blame average Joe for eating beef. We are literally throwing away a sustainable future for the next quarter earnings. If things are to change we need to stop prioritizing money over anything else.
- myshpa 3y ago
  Blaming corporations alone isn't enough; individual choices fuel their actions. It's a dual responsibility: pressuring corps for change while adopting sustainable choices ourselves. Only collective action can drive the shift we need.
  - x86x87 3y ago
    I disagree. We should start at placing the blame where it needs to be. Not gaslight people. One example is the whole plastic straws debacle. Let's virtue signal and blame the peasants for the plastic in the oceans. In reality more than 50% of the plastic that ends up in the oceans is from commercial fishing nets. Oh... Did you know that the paper straws that you are hailing as a solution have even more PFAs than your regular dumb straws? Carbon emissions? Let's slap that on the suckers and demand that their cars do 100mpg while not emitting a single CO2 molecule. Meanwhile... How much emissions do the top 10-20 diesel powered large ships in the world put in the atmosphere? This needs to be done systematically and at policy level considering a multitude of social factors. Telling everyone how bad beef is? Not helpful
    - myshpa 3y ago
      > One example is the whole plastic straws debacle That demonstrates not only that governments are unable to solve the problems at the production side but also that they're choosing the minimum they can do to pretend they're making an effort, all while minimizing disruptions to the markets. I'd argue that the capitalism and the need for growth is the problem. > In reality more than 50% of the plastic that ends up in the oceans is from commercial fishing nets > This needs to be done systematically and at policy level considering a multitude of social factors. Telling everyone how bad beef is? It's the same problem as with beef. If everyone insists on eating beef and fish, governments won't regulate the industries or remove their subsidies. The population has to want those regulations, otherwise it won't ever happen. So the solution is the same as with beef. Switch to plant based diets personally, then demand changes on the political level.
      - x86x87 3y ago
        In case of the straws where people tried doing something that something is worth very little. You don't solve the tragedy of the commons by shaming people to fish less.
        myshpa 3y ago
        I'm not shaming anyone by talking about the need to switch to plant based diets. That's just your subconsciousness speaking. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance#Meat-eating https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance#Meat-eati... Plant-based diets are the only way to feed 10 billion people sustainably. https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/917471 https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/917471 How Compatible Are Western European Dietary Patterns to Climate Targets? https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/14/21/14449 https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/14/21/14449 What humanity should eat to stay healthy and save the planet https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-03565-5 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-03565-5
    - jfengel 3y ago
      The beef industry is an enormous producer of greenhouse gases, both directly and indirectly. They manipulate the government to make their product cheaper, and they manipulate their customers to consume more than is healthy for them. We should absolutely fight their government abuses, but we can also push back at the consumer level. It's bad for them personally, as well as for the environment. Even at best that would only fix a tiny fraction of the problem, and we do need to push at the corporate level. But unlike the stupid straw thing, reducing meat consumption really does have environmental benefits.

x86x87 3y ago

I am tired of this people "shamming"/virtue signalling. You have a handful of corporations fucking up the environment but let's blame average Joe for eating beef. We are literally throwing away a sustainable future for the next quarter earnings. If things are to change we need to stop prioritizing money over anything else.

myshpa 3y ago
Blaming corporations alone isn't enough; individual choices fuel their actions. It's a dual responsibility: pressuring corps for change while adopting sustainable choices ourselves. Only collective action can drive the shift we need.
- x86x87 3y ago
  I disagree. We should start at placing the blame where it needs to be. Not gaslight people. One example is the whole plastic straws debacle. Let's virtue signal and blame the peasants for the plastic in the oceans. In reality more than 50% of the plastic that ends up in the oceans is from commercial fishing nets. Oh... Did you know that the paper straws that you are hailing as a solution have even more PFAs than your regular dumb straws? Carbon emissions? Let's slap that on the suckers and demand that their cars do 100mpg while not emitting a single CO2 molecule. Meanwhile... How much emissions do the top 10-20 diesel powered large ships in the world put in the atmosphere? This needs to be done systematically and at policy level considering a multitude of social factors. Telling everyone how bad beef is? Not helpful
  - myshpa 3y ago
    > One example is the whole plastic straws debacle That demonstrates not only that governments are unable to solve the problems at the production side but also that they're choosing the minimum they can do to pretend they're making an effort, all while minimizing disruptions to the markets. I'd argue that the capitalism and the need for growth is the problem. > In reality more than 50% of the plastic that ends up in the oceans is from commercial fishing nets > This needs to be done systematically and at policy level considering a multitude of social factors. Telling everyone how bad beef is? It's the same problem as with beef. If everyone insists on eating beef and fish, governments won't regulate the industries or remove their subsidies. The population has to want those regulations, otherwise it won't ever happen. So the solution is the same as with beef. Switch to plant based diets personally, then demand changes on the political level.
    - x86x87 3y ago
      In case of the straws where people tried doing something that something is worth very little. You don't solve the tragedy of the commons by shaming people to fish less.
      - myshpa 3y ago
        I'm not shaming anyone by talking about the need to switch to plant based diets. That's just your subconsciousness speaking. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance#Meat-eating https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance#Meat-eati... Plant-based diets are the only way to feed 10 billion people sustainably. https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/917471 https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/917471 How Compatible Are Western European Dietary Patterns to Climate Targets? https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/14/21/14449 https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/14/21/14449 What humanity should eat to stay healthy and save the planet https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-03565-5 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-03565-5
  - jfengel 3y ago
    The beef industry is an enormous producer of greenhouse gases, both directly and indirectly. They manipulate the government to make their product cheaper, and they manipulate their customers to consume more than is healthy for them. We should absolutely fight their government abuses, but we can also push back at the consumer level. It's bad for them personally, as well as for the environment. Even at best that would only fix a tiny fraction of the problem, and we do need to push at the corporate level. But unlike the stupid straw thing, reducing meat consumption really does have environmental benefits.