4 ms·

"on a given day", not the same 12% every day . . . which I guess would be expected, as not everyone eats beef every day!

Someone 3y ago
I think that’s bad phrasing in the article. The paper (https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/15/17/3795 https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/15/17/3795; open access) talks about equivalent ounces of beef per 220kcal consumed (thus ≈scaling by body size)
madcaptenor 3y ago
I looked at the study (https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/15/17/3795 https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/15/17/3795) and you're right. As far as I can tell the data source asks people to recall the food they ate on a previous day. The authors are aware of this limitation - they write that "One limitation of this work is that it was based on 1-day diet recalls, so our results do not represent usual intake." But on the other hand the abstract ends "Efforts to address climate change through diet modification could benefit from targeting campaigns to the highest consumers of beef, as their consumption accounts for half of all beef consumed" which implies that they're thinking of this as being a consistent group. What they've shown is that there are 12% of person-days that represent half of all the beef-eating (subject to that their data is based on people remembering what they ate) - but that doesn't mean that those 12% of person-days are concentrated among 12% of people. I'm sure that 50% of the beef is eaten by less than 50% of the people, but it's probably more like 30% than 12%.
- x86x87 3y ago
  I am tired of this people "shamming"/virtue signalling. You have a handful of corporations fucking up the environment but let's blame average Joe for eating beef. We are literally throwing away a sustainable future for the next quarter earnings. If things are to change we need to stop prioritizing money over anything else.
  - myshpa 3y ago
    Blaming corporations alone isn't enough; individual choices fuel their actions. It's a dual responsibility: pressuring corps for change while adopting sustainable choices ourselves. Only collective action can drive the shift we need.
    - x86x87 3y ago
      I disagree. We should start at placing the blame where it needs to be. Not gaslight people. One example is the whole plastic straws debacle. Let's virtue signal and blame the peasants for the plastic in the oceans. In reality more than 50% of the plastic that ends up in the oceans is from commercial fishing nets. Oh... Did you know that the paper straws that you are hailing as a solution have even more PFAs than your regular dumb straws? Carbon emissions? Let's slap that on the suckers and demand that their cars do 100mpg while not emitting a single CO2 molecule. Meanwhile... How much emissions do the top 10-20 diesel powered large ships in the world put in the atmosphere? This needs to be done systematically and at policy level considering a multitude of social factors. Telling everyone how bad beef is? Not helpful
      - myshpa 3y ago
        > One example is the whole plastic straws debacle That demonstrates not only that governments are unable to solve the problems at the production side but also that they're choosing the minimum they can do to pretend they're making an effort, all while minimizing disruptions to the markets. I'd argue that the capitalism and the need for growth is the problem. > In reality more than 50% of the plastic that ends up in the oceans is from commercial fishing nets > This needs to be done systematically and at policy level considering a multitude of social factors. Telling everyone how bad beef is? It's the same problem as with beef. If everyone insists on eating beef and fish, governments won't regulate the industries or remove their subsidies. The population has to want those regulations, otherwise it won't ever happen. So the solution is the same as with beef. Switch to plant based diets personally, then demand changes on the political level.
        3y ago
bell-cot 3y ago
THIS. The HN Title: > 12% of Americans eat half the nation's beef Vs. the article's full title: > How a mere 12% of Americans eat half the nation's beef, creating significant health and environmental impacts Vs. the first para: > A new study has found that 12% of Americans are responsible for eating half of all beef consumed on a given day, a finding that may help consumer groups and government agencies craft educational messaging around the negative health and environmental impacts of beef consumption. The quality and quantity of actual facts heads downhill fast from there. Even ignoring the article's dreary left-wing political agenda...if a mentally-competent grown-up actually wanted beneficial (for the climate & environment) changes in American eating habits (vs. yet more performative activism, and sermons to the choir), then he might take into consideration the huge number of Americans who identify as being on the opposing side of that sensitive culture war issue, and plan accordingly. I have yet to see any sign, anywhere, of that last bit.
- myshpa 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - bell-cot 3y ago
    Lordy... > way over HN's 80 chars Please assume that I know about HN's character limit. > > rest of the drivel Please do not quote me as saying thing which I did not say. > Your opinions are a result of... {mile-tall wall of text and links} I don't think you have any idea of what my actual opinions are. But you appear to be a pro at "more is better" performative activism in the current culture war. Hopefully that was your intention.
    - myshpa 3y ago
      > Your opinions are a result of... {mile-tall wall of text and links} TLDR: Insisting on a particular diet, regardless of how destructive it is, is selfish, short-sighted, and unfair to the rest of the population, to future generations, and to the world we should be taking care of.
wsostt 3y ago
Are they saying that the same 12% of people eat half of the consumed beef each day? Or that 12% of beef consumers eat half of the daily consumption but that group’s membership changes each day? If I eat a steak and cheeseburger in the same day, am I part of that group or am I never part of the group because I only eat beef 1x per week?
mcphage 3y ago
I mean, even if it was that 12% of Americans eat 50% of the US's beef—over a year and not just a day—number wise, that's not at all that strange or unexpected, and it doesn't really mean anything.

Someone 3y ago

I think that’s bad phrasing in the article. The paper (https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/15/17/3795 https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/15/17/3795; open access) talks about equivalent ounces of beef per 220kcal consumed (thus ≈scaling by body size)

madcaptenor 3y ago

I looked at the study (https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/15/17/3795 https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/15/17/3795) and you're right. As far as I can tell the data source asks people to recall the food they ate on a previous day. The authors are aware of this limitation - they write that "One limitation of this work is that it was based on 1-day diet recalls, so our results do not represent usual intake." But on the other hand the abstract ends "Efforts to address climate change through diet modification could benefit from targeting campaigns to the highest consumers of beef, as their consumption accounts for half of all beef consumed" which implies that they're thinking of this as being a consistent group. What they've shown is that there are 12% of person-days that represent half of all the beef-eating (subject to that their data is based on people remembering what they ate) - but that doesn't mean that those 12% of person-days are concentrated among 12% of people. I'm sure that 50% of the beef is eaten by less than 50% of the people, but it's probably more like 30% than 12%.

x86x87 3y ago
I am tired of this people "shamming"/virtue signalling. You have a handful of corporations fucking up the environment but let's blame average Joe for eating beef. We are literally throwing away a sustainable future for the next quarter earnings. If things are to change we need to stop prioritizing money over anything else.
- myshpa 3y ago
  Blaming corporations alone isn't enough; individual choices fuel their actions. It's a dual responsibility: pressuring corps for change while adopting sustainable choices ourselves. Only collective action can drive the shift we need.
  - x86x87 3y ago
    I disagree. We should start at placing the blame where it needs to be. Not gaslight people. One example is the whole plastic straws debacle. Let's virtue signal and blame the peasants for the plastic in the oceans. In reality more than 50% of the plastic that ends up in the oceans is from commercial fishing nets. Oh... Did you know that the paper straws that you are hailing as a solution have even more PFAs than your regular dumb straws? Carbon emissions? Let's slap that on the suckers and demand that their cars do 100mpg while not emitting a single CO2 molecule. Meanwhile... How much emissions do the top 10-20 diesel powered large ships in the world put in the atmosphere? This needs to be done systematically and at policy level considering a multitude of social factors. Telling everyone how bad beef is? Not helpful
    - myshpa 3y ago
      > One example is the whole plastic straws debacle That demonstrates not only that governments are unable to solve the problems at the production side but also that they're choosing the minimum they can do to pretend they're making an effort, all while minimizing disruptions to the markets. I'd argue that the capitalism and the need for growth is the problem. > In reality more than 50% of the plastic that ends up in the oceans is from commercial fishing nets > This needs to be done systematically and at policy level considering a multitude of social factors. Telling everyone how bad beef is? It's the same problem as with beef. If everyone insists on eating beef and fish, governments won't regulate the industries or remove their subsidies. The population has to want those regulations, otherwise it won't ever happen. So the solution is the same as with beef. Switch to plant based diets personally, then demand changes on the political level.
      - 3y ago

bell-cot 3y ago

THIS. The HN Title: > 12% of Americans eat half the nation's beef Vs. the article's full title: > How a mere 12% of Americans eat half the nation's beef, creating significant health and environmental impacts Vs. the first para: > A new study has found that 12% of Americans are responsible for eating half of all beef consumed on a given day, a finding that may help consumer groups and government agencies craft educational messaging around the negative health and environmental impacts of beef consumption. The quality and quantity of actual facts heads downhill fast from there. Even ignoring the article's dreary left-wing political agenda...if a mentally-competent grown-up actually wanted beneficial (for the climate & environment) changes in American eating habits (vs. yet more performative activism, and sermons to the choir), then he might take into consideration the huge number of Americans who identify as being on the opposing side of that sensitive culture war issue, and plan accordingly. I have yet to see any sign, anywhere, of that last bit.

myshpa 3y ago
[flagged]
- bell-cot 3y ago
  Lordy... > way over HN's 80 chars Please assume that I know about HN's character limit. > > rest of the drivel Please do not quote me as saying thing which I did not say. > Your opinions are a result of... {mile-tall wall of text and links} I don't think you have any idea of what my actual opinions are. But you appear to be a pro at "more is better" performative activism in the current culture war. Hopefully that was your intention.
  - myshpa 3y ago
    > Your opinions are a result of... {mile-tall wall of text and links} TLDR: Insisting on a particular diet, regardless of how destructive it is, is selfish, short-sighted, and unfair to the rest of the population, to future generations, and to the world we should be taking care of.

wsostt 3y ago

Are they saying that the same 12% of people eat half of the consumed beef each day? Or that 12% of beef consumers eat half of the daily consumption but that group’s membership changes each day? If I eat a steak and cheeseburger in the same day, am I part of that group or am I never part of the group because I only eat beef 1x per week?

mcphage 3y ago

I mean, even if it was that 12% of Americans eat 50% of the US's beef—over a year and not just a day—number wise, that's not at all that strange or unexpected, and it doesn't really mean anything.