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The GOV.UK design system[1] agrees with you: > "Use single or multiple fields depending on your user’s needs. Not everyone’s name fits the first-name, last-nam

The GOV.UK design system[1] agrees with you: > "Use single or multiple fields depending on your user’s needs. Not everyone’s name fits the first-name, last-name format. Using multiple name fields mean there’s more risk that a person’s name will not fit the format you’ve chosen and that it is entered incorrectly." and > "Avoid asking users for their title. It’s extra work for them and you’re asking them to potentially reveal their gender and marital status, which they may not want to do." and > "If your service stores personal information, you should allow users to update their details, including their name. Allowing users to change their name helps your service respect their personal identity. It also means they can continue using your service without having to start over. People change their name for many reasons. For example, because of a change in marital status, family situation or gender. Avoid making it hard for users to change their name. As well as causing them distress, it may make them reluctant to use your service." [1] https://design-system.service.gov.uk/patterns/names/ https://design-system.service.gov.uk/patterns/names/

dgb23 3y ago
This has to be one of the best design systems I ever looked at...
- RadiozRadioz 3y ago
  As a UK citizen, I am routinely impressed by our government website. It is one of the few things this country does right, in my opinion. I know some people who work on the UI, and they put painstaking attention into every tiny detail to make things as accessible as possible. The goal is that it should be universally navigable by anyone, regardless of technical competence, disability or background.
  - dgb23 3y ago
    As a web developer I’m impressed by the consistency, practical beauty and the respect of users. We as technical nerds often forget how people actually interact with technology and assume way too much attention, familiarity and ability to understand UI patterns. We often think of accessibility in terms of screen readers, but that’s just a fraction of the story… Add varied devices, slow connections, very bad performance etc. I’m craving for things like simplicity, performance, robustness and accessibility. This looks like a holistic, carefully crafted design system. I’m looking forward to study it.
deleted 3y ago
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ghaff 3y ago
>> "Avoid asking users for their title. It’s extra work for them and you’re asking them to potentially reveal their gender and marital status, which they may not want to do." I'm always a bit surprised when I see some e.g. tech conferences still insisting on title as a mandatory field (or really asking at all). It's not just the gender and the marital status but some people attach a lot of significance to all manner of honorifics. When I last registered for some conference put on by The Economist, it must have had 25 titles to choose from including a whole bunch of aristocratic and clergy-related titles. Seems a lot easier just not to bother today.
- echohack5 3y ago
  I'm privy to Software <D&D/Video Game Class Name> for titles.
  - gpm 3y ago
    Hmm, Software Barbarian, I like it.
- nsonha 3y ago
  So how would you fill this email template: > Dear <usually title> <usually last name>,
- mikhailfranco 3y ago
  When I worked for an ecommerce retailer in the UK, we had a title field, with some preset choices and a freeform other option. The sw dev looked up a bunch of titles - Sir, Dame, Lord, Duke, Earl, Baron, Bishop, Prince, Princess, Reverend - and decided the DB field could be 8 letters. Of course it broke for the first Archbishop.
- Tainnor 3y ago
  At least in Germany, titles are still rather important. I agree that it's silly but if you have a PhD you're very likely to put "Dr." on your doorbell name plate.
  - 3y ago
Hamuko 3y ago
Title is the one that always confuses me since titles are basically non-existent here. It seems really like a really important thing in the Anglosphere and I have no idea why. I just always pick "Dr" when I'm forced to pick one. So far it has never made any difference.
- ghaff 3y ago
  (PhD) Dr. is a funny one in the Anglosphere and also at least parts of continental Europe (and possibly elsewhere). It's sort of a big deal in academia and some percentage of other people feel pretty attached to the title. For others, the attitude is more it's just a degree and lots of people have advanced degrees that we don't go around using honorifics for.
  - OJFord 3y ago
    > For others, the attitude is more it's just a degree and lots of people have advanced degrees that we don't go around using honorifics for. Like what? Doesn't that argument work the other way around, that lots of people have equivalent or higher degrees than medicos, but only the latter are called doctors at their place of work? All I can think is things like EngD, but I'd think those holders are as likely as PhDs to use the 'Doctor' from it, it's really just the term the university happened to use in awarding it.
    - ghaff 3y ago
      The impression I get from some people I know with PhDs (or equivalent from schools that use different names) is that, in a non-academic/research setting, they feel that emphasizing their degree can come across as a sort of superior attitude working alongside a lot of talented people with various degrees (or lack thereof)—especially to the degree that whatever their thesis was in however many years ago may have next to nothing with what they do today. I have no particular stake in the question though. Totally understand that people are proud of their achievement.
      - OJFord 3y ago
sigwinch28 3y ago
On the other hand, HM Passport Office absolutely loves titles: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/titles-included-in-passports https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/titles-included-i... My personal favourite is if you change your first name to “Sir” and you are not actually a “Knight”, then you get the note “THE REFERENCE TO SIR IS TO THE HOLDER’S NAME AND NOT TO THE HOLDER’S TITLE” printed in your passport. Context: I wanted “Dr.” to be added to my passport.
- OJFord 3y ago
  That seems good though, you want people checking it in an airport or whatever to get it right, believe that's your name, not insist that your name is just middle-last because the first (Sir) is honourific.
- scarby2 3y ago
  You also get this with Lord and I'd assume Baron, count, Duke, viscount or their feminine equivalents. I do wonder what would happen if I used a tile that was not used in the UK.
  - coldacid 3y ago
    Move to Britain, change your given name to Graf (that's German for the title of count/earl), and get a passport. I'm curious to see what the result would be, myself.
    - amiga386 3y ago
      https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/titles-included-in-passports/titles-accessible https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/titles-included-i... If you set your title to "Graf" in the passport form: > By Royal Warrant of 27 April 1932, the use in England and Wales of foreign titles of nobility was discontinued. > You must include the observation: THE HOLDER IS ALSO KNOWN AS (foreign title). If you instead set your given name to "Graf", these instructions would not apply, as you are not claiming it's your title. Nor would it be evident to the passport office or any other English speaker that your given name implied a title, so provided your supporting documents corroborate that "Graf" is your given name, they'd issue a passport in that name. However, if you used not "Graf", but a title recognised in the English language: > A person may call themselves any name they want, as long as it is not for fraudulent purposes > You may receive an application supported by documents (for example, a birth certificate or a change of name deed) that shows a customer is using a name that includes a description of a title (for example, Lord, Princess, Earl or Baron as a forename). > You must include the observation: THE REFERENCE TO (description of title) IS TO THE HOLDER’S NAME AND NOT TO THE HOLDER’S TITLE.
deleted 3y ago
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dgb23 3y ago

This has to be one of the best design systems I ever looked at...

RadiozRadioz 3y ago
As a UK citizen, I am routinely impressed by our government website. It is one of the few things this country does right, in my opinion. I know some people who work on the UI, and they put painstaking attention into every tiny detail to make things as accessible as possible. The goal is that it should be universally navigable by anyone, regardless of technical competence, disability or background.
- dgb23 3y ago
  As a web developer I’m impressed by the consistency, practical beauty and the respect of users. We as technical nerds often forget how people actually interact with technology and assume way too much attention, familiarity and ability to understand UI patterns. We often think of accessibility in terms of screen readers, but that’s just a fraction of the story… Add varied devices, slow connections, very bad performance etc. I’m craving for things like simplicity, performance, robustness and accessibility. This looks like a holistic, carefully crafted design system. I’m looking forward to study it.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

ghaff 3y ago

>> "Avoid asking users for their title. It’s extra work for them and you’re asking them to potentially reveal their gender and marital status, which they may not want to do." I'm always a bit surprised when I see some e.g. tech conferences still insisting on title as a mandatory field (or really asking at all). It's not just the gender and the marital status but some people attach a lot of significance to all manner of honorifics. When I last registered for some conference put on by The Economist, it must have had 25 titles to choose from including a whole bunch of aristocratic and clergy-related titles. Seems a lot easier just not to bother today.

echohack5 3y ago
I'm privy to Software <D&D/Video Game Class Name> for titles.
- gpm 3y ago
  Hmm, Software Barbarian, I like it.
nsonha 3y ago
So how would you fill this email template: > Dear <usually title> <usually last name>,
mikhailfranco 3y ago
When I worked for an ecommerce retailer in the UK, we had a title field, with some preset choices and a freeform other option. The sw dev looked up a bunch of titles - Sir, Dame, Lord, Duke, Earl, Baron, Bishop, Prince, Princess, Reverend - and decided the DB field could be 8 letters. Of course it broke for the first Archbishop.
Tainnor 3y ago
At least in Germany, titles are still rather important. I agree that it's silly but if you have a PhD you're very likely to put "Dr." on your doorbell name plate.
- 3y ago

Hamuko 3y ago

Title is the one that always confuses me since titles are basically non-existent here. It seems really like a really important thing in the Anglosphere and I have no idea why. I just always pick "Dr" when I'm forced to pick one. So far it has never made any difference.

ghaff 3y ago
(PhD) Dr. is a funny one in the Anglosphere and also at least parts of continental Europe (and possibly elsewhere). It's sort of a big deal in academia and some percentage of other people feel pretty attached to the title. For others, the attitude is more it's just a degree and lots of people have advanced degrees that we don't go around using honorifics for.
- OJFord 3y ago
  > For others, the attitude is more it's just a degree and lots of people have advanced degrees that we don't go around using honorifics for. Like what? Doesn't that argument work the other way around, that lots of people have equivalent or higher degrees than medicos, but only the latter are called doctors at their place of work? All I can think is things like EngD, but I'd think those holders are as likely as PhDs to use the 'Doctor' from it, it's really just the term the university happened to use in awarding it.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    The impression I get from some people I know with PhDs (or equivalent from schools that use different names) is that, in a non-academic/research setting, they feel that emphasizing their degree can come across as a sort of superior attitude working alongside a lot of talented people with various degrees (or lack thereof)—especially to the degree that whatever their thesis was in however many years ago may have next to nothing with what they do today. I have no particular stake in the question though. Totally understand that people are proud of their achievement.
    - OJFord 3y ago

sigwinch28 3y ago

On the other hand, HM Passport Office absolutely loves titles: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/titles-included-in-passports https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/titles-included-i... My personal favourite is if you change your first name to “Sir” and you are not actually a “Knight”, then you get the note “THE REFERENCE TO SIR IS TO THE HOLDER’S NAME AND NOT TO THE HOLDER’S TITLE” printed in your passport. Context: I wanted “Dr.” to be added to my passport.

OJFord 3y ago
That seems good though, you want people checking it in an airport or whatever to get it right, believe that's your name, not insist that your name is just middle-last because the first (Sir) is honourific.
scarby2 3y ago
You also get this with Lord and I'd assume Baron, count, Duke, viscount or their feminine equivalents. I do wonder what would happen if I used a tile that was not used in the UK.
- coldacid 3y ago
  Move to Britain, change your given name to Graf (that's German for the title of count/earl), and get a passport. I'm curious to see what the result would be, myself.
  - amiga386 3y ago
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/titles-included-in-passports/titles-accessible https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/titles-included-i... If you set your title to "Graf" in the passport form: > By Royal Warrant of 27 April 1932, the use in England and Wales of foreign titles of nobility was discontinued. > You must include the observation: THE HOLDER IS ALSO KNOWN AS (foreign title). If you instead set your given name to "Graf", these instructions would not apply, as you are not claiming it's your title. Nor would it be evident to the passport office or any other English speaker that your given name implied a title, so provided your supporting documents corroborate that "Graf" is your given name, they'd issue a passport in that name. However, if you used not "Graf", but a title recognised in the English language: > A person may call themselves any name they want, as long as it is not for fraudulent purposes > You may receive an application supported by documents (for example, a birth certificate or a change of name deed) that shows a customer is using a name that includes a description of a title (for example, Lord, Princess, Earl or Baron as a forename). > You must include the observation: THE REFERENCE TO (description of title) IS TO THE HOLDER’S NAME AND NOT TO THE HOLDER’S TITLE.

deleted 3y ago

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