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Have you seen the new AI photoshop where you can just AI fill anything? And it just works? The amount of people who can edit photo's is now basically unlimited

Have you seen the new AI photoshop where you can just AI fill anything? And it just works? The amount of people who can edit photo's is now basically unlimited. That's thanks to generative AI. Same like how the computers enabled billions to do the most complex calculations within a second, while before you needed to learn that skill over years or practise.

ben_w 3y ago
> Have you seen the new AI photoshop where you can just AI fill anything? And it just works? > The amount of people who can edit photo's is now basically unlimited. That's thanks to generative AI. It's also available at zero cost, thanks to the ecosystem around Stable Diffusion. You probably know the meme that gets parroted randomly about OpenAI needing a moat; well, what's Adobe's moat, now that this exists?
- stale2002 3y ago
  > well, what's Adobe's moat, now that this exists? Although this is debatable, lets accept it for the sake of argument that adobe has no moat. If this is the case, this may be bad for adobe, but it is amazing for the design world. Producing more art for cheaper is real value. And we may not know who specifically will capture that value, but it is undeniably value none the less that will go somewhere. That still benefits the economy as a whole, even if we can't guess which AI startup will win the race.
  - trashtester 3y ago
    > Producing more art for cheaper is real value. Except that if art production becomes too easy, the prices go down, and the only party benefiting is the consumer/customer.
    - stale2002 3y ago
      Fortunately, the only party that matters is the consumer. Businesses may exist and be necessary to serve the consumer. But they are not valuable in and of themselves.
    - zirgs 3y ago
      As if that's a bad thing.
      - trashtester 3y ago
        Generally, it's not. Though it tends to disappear into effects that are taken for granted. Like the improvement in mobile phone quality since 1990. Just like how easy access to music through Spotify may make us appreciate music less than if we have to actually put a vinyl record on, easily accessed art may also reduce our perceived appreciation.
  - ben_w 3y ago
    > That still benefits the economy as a whole, even if we can't guess which AI startup will win the race. One possible outcome is that the entire economy benefits without any AI startup winning — even if Stability AI goes under for whatever reason, the various Stable Diffusion models are still out there getting used to make pictures.
- fxtentacle 3y ago
  Adobe's moat is that GIMP still cannot properly edit 4-channel CMYK images. And none of the competitors can print with ICC profile correction. I kid you not, there is no way around Adobe for any kind of serious image editing. Adobe's second moat is PDF. And it builds upon their imaging moat because companies want their product boxes to be sharp and with accurate colors, so there is an entire industry built around PDF-based print and cut and glue manufacturing. So whether or not they throw an AI bone to the kids is probably irrelevant to their bottom line. My guess would be that Adobe added those AI features mainly to make their company look more sexy to potential future hires.
  - zirgs 3y ago
    CYMK and ICC profiles are irrelevant in gamedev and vfx industries though.
    - fxtentacle 3y ago
      You need ICC if you want your digital to film printer to generate accurate results. But yeah, for gamedev Adobe Photoshop doesn't have that much benefit over specialized tools like Substance Painter .. oh wait, they recently bought that company ;)
- rickdeckard 3y ago
  Adobe's business model is to provide you the benefits of wild-west AI with the legal stability of an Adobe service. With Firefly they offer a tool an art agency can use daily without having to worry about hidden legal implications of using AI...
- dbmikus 3y ago
  The design world runs on Creative Suite, and the Figma acquisition improved that position. There's a network effect to the software, the file format, and creative team collaboration tools. Given this, competitors need to be meaningfully better, not just equivalent or somewhat better. Adobe is still in the position to be the go to product suite for creative professionals.
- vineyardmike 3y ago
  Well stable diffusion’s parent company is nearly dead due to funding issues. So competing isn’t something they’re succeeding at. The moat memo misses the truth that google knows: you need existing customers. Ideally paying customers. Firefly has doesn’t have a moat, it has a well. It has a way to sustain and fund development and growth and servers. That’s why google doesn’t need a moat. They have the funds to take on anyone, and probably win.
martin_a 3y ago
I'm regularly using the Photoshop function to test its limits and applications to our printing business. It's kind of impressive at first but it lacks quality where it matters, especially with the more complicated jobs. Also "editing photos" is more than what the AI does. We have solutions for that, on another level though, for the last 15-20 years already.
- Kaibeezy 3y ago
  > It's kind of impressive at first but it lacks quality where it matters, especially with the more complicated jobs. Same with the higher-complexity written tasks I’ve been chipping away at. The quality dropoff is a cliff. Crossing that chasm feels like it will take more than incremental improvement of current tools; it feels like an entirely new technology is needed.
bombolo 3y ago
I'd expect the real implementation to not be nearly as good as the demo shows.

ben_w 3y ago

> Have you seen the new AI photoshop where you can just AI fill anything? And it just works? > The amount of people who can edit photo's is now basically unlimited. That's thanks to generative AI. It's also available at zero cost, thanks to the ecosystem around Stable Diffusion. You probably know the meme that gets parroted randomly about OpenAI needing a moat; well, what's Adobe's moat, now that this exists?

stale2002 3y ago
> well, what's Adobe's moat, now that this exists? Although this is debatable, lets accept it for the sake of argument that adobe has no moat. If this is the case, this may be bad for adobe, but it is amazing for the design world. Producing more art for cheaper is real value. And we may not know who specifically will capture that value, but it is undeniably value none the less that will go somewhere. That still benefits the economy as a whole, even if we can't guess which AI startup will win the race.
- trashtester 3y ago
  > Producing more art for cheaper is real value. Except that if art production becomes too easy, the prices go down, and the only party benefiting is the consumer/customer.
  - stale2002 3y ago
    Fortunately, the only party that matters is the consumer. Businesses may exist and be necessary to serve the consumer. But they are not valuable in and of themselves.
  - zirgs 3y ago
    As if that's a bad thing.
    - trashtester 3y ago
      Generally, it's not. Though it tends to disappear into effects that are taken for granted. Like the improvement in mobile phone quality since 1990. Just like how easy access to music through Spotify may make us appreciate music less than if we have to actually put a vinyl record on, easily accessed art may also reduce our perceived appreciation.
- ben_w 3y ago
  > That still benefits the economy as a whole, even if we can't guess which AI startup will win the race. One possible outcome is that the entire economy benefits without any AI startup winning — even if Stability AI goes under for whatever reason, the various Stable Diffusion models are still out there getting used to make pictures.
fxtentacle 3y ago
Adobe's moat is that GIMP still cannot properly edit 4-channel CMYK images. And none of the competitors can print with ICC profile correction. I kid you not, there is no way around Adobe for any kind of serious image editing. Adobe's second moat is PDF. And it builds upon their imaging moat because companies want their product boxes to be sharp and with accurate colors, so there is an entire industry built around PDF-based print and cut and glue manufacturing. So whether or not they throw an AI bone to the kids is probably irrelevant to their bottom line. My guess would be that Adobe added those AI features mainly to make their company look more sexy to potential future hires.
- zirgs 3y ago
  CYMK and ICC profiles are irrelevant in gamedev and vfx industries though.
  - fxtentacle 3y ago
    You need ICC if you want your digital to film printer to generate accurate results. But yeah, for gamedev Adobe Photoshop doesn't have that much benefit over specialized tools like Substance Painter .. oh wait, they recently bought that company ;)
rickdeckard 3y ago
Adobe's business model is to provide you the benefits of wild-west AI with the legal stability of an Adobe service. With Firefly they offer a tool an art agency can use daily without having to worry about hidden legal implications of using AI...
dbmikus 3y ago
The design world runs on Creative Suite, and the Figma acquisition improved that position. There's a network effect to the software, the file format, and creative team collaboration tools. Given this, competitors need to be meaningfully better, not just equivalent or somewhat better. Adobe is still in the position to be the go to product suite for creative professionals.
vineyardmike 3y ago
Well stable diffusion’s parent company is nearly dead due to funding issues. So competing isn’t something they’re succeeding at. The moat memo misses the truth that google knows: you need existing customers. Ideally paying customers. Firefly has doesn’t have a moat, it has a well. It has a way to sustain and fund development and growth and servers. That’s why google doesn’t need a moat. They have the funds to take on anyone, and probably win.

martin_a 3y ago

I'm regularly using the Photoshop function to test its limits and applications to our printing business. It's kind of impressive at first but it lacks quality where it matters, especially with the more complicated jobs. Also "editing photos" is more than what the AI does. We have solutions for that, on another level though, for the last 15-20 years already.

Kaibeezy 3y ago
> It's kind of impressive at first but it lacks quality where it matters, especially with the more complicated jobs. Same with the higher-complexity written tasks I’ve been chipping away at. The quality dropoff is a cliff. Crossing that chasm feels like it will take more than incremental improvement of current tools; it feels like an entirely new technology is needed.

bombolo 3y ago

I'd expect the real implementation to not be nearly as good as the demo shows.