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But people aren't replacing their batteries every 8 years. Modern solar panels are usually rated to 90%+ production at 20 years. Mine are rated for 92%. It tur

But people aren't replacing their batteries every 8 years. Modern solar panels are usually rated to 90%+ production at 20 years. Mine are rated for 92%. It turns out all the sturm und drang about having to replace solar panels and "oh-my-god manufacturing emissions will outstrip the benefits produced over their lifetime" ... was bunk. Rounded down: no one ever replaces their solar panels. In all likelyhood even 100 year old panels will still be producing >50% of their rated output. For the rare case where someone replaces panels the old panels are re-sold to a new user... they are very rarely junked. Batteries don't last quite as long but they have similar characteristics. People forget about range anxiety and just drive the vehicle. It turns out most people don't see capacity reductions anywhere near the dire predictions. They often don't notice the capacity reduction nor care even when they do notice. Even when someone wrecks an EV the batteries are often not recycled - people buy and use them either as replacements for their own vehicles or for power backup systems. Fleet stats are in the early stages but so far even after driving for 10+ years most Tesla owners are on the original battery and happy with it.

culi 3y ago
> they are very rarely junked. mmmm hmmm As interest in clean energy surges, used solar panels are going straight into landfill https://hbr.org/2021/06/the-dark-side-of-solar-power https://hbr.org/2021/06/the-dark-side-of-solar-power The Solar Boom Will Create Millions of Tons of Junk Panels https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-solar-boom-will-create-millions-of-tons-of-junk-panels-11651658402 https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-solar-boom-will-create-mill... The Global South’s solar e-waste problem https://www.pv-magazine.com/2022/10/03/the-global-souths-solar-e-waste-problem/ https://www.pv-magazine.com/2022/10/03/the-global-souths-sol... Rising power costs worsening solar panel e-waste crisis as people replace panels prematurely https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-06-08/rising-power-costs-worsening-solar-panel-waste-in-landfill/102444862 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-06-08/rising-power-costs-wo... Solar recycling is broken, but there’s a plan to fix it https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/29/22857157/solar-recycling-new-better-method https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/29/22857157/solar-recycling... Are solar panels the next e-waste? https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/sep/03/solar-panels-ewaste https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/sep/03/solar-pa...
- xenadu02 3y ago
  My information comes from installers and dealers of used panels. The rate of solar panel replacement is extremely low. Very few people replace their panels. Modern panels also don't degrade very quickly, often warrantied for less than 0.5%/year. Most people who do replacements are the much smaller number of early adopters. These are just facts. The supposed "avalanche" of old panels has not appeared. In other words if you compare # of panels produced per year to # of panels being thrown away it is more favorable than most products. Not that any of the articles you posted even make an attempt to run those numbers. I stand by my point: both solar panels and batteries have been steadily improving year after year. They last longer than people think and are not creating a tide of waste as the nay-sayers keep predicting in order to squash these technologies to promote burning fossil fuels.
- gaganyaan 3y ago
  Your first link is speculative, and just assumes that old solar panels are going to the landfill, which is exactly what OP is saying won't happen. Are your other links relevant at all either?
  - culi 3y ago
    much more relevant than OP's unsourced speculations I think! The first link is not "speculative". It's projecting from the current (very high) rate of landfill waste to try to predict how much will be going to the landfill with the ongoing boom
    - gaganyaan 3y ago
      It does no such thing. Why would you lie about that when anyone can just go and read it? > Using real U.S. data, we modeled the incentives affecting consumers’ decisions whether to replace under various scenarios They model replacement, and assume that the replaced equipment is going into a landfill, which is exactly the OP's point that it won't. It's entirely speculative, and based on assumptions OP says aren't true. Why would you post that?

culi 3y ago

> they are very rarely junked. mmmm hmmm As interest in clean energy surges, used solar panels are going straight into landfill https://hbr.org/2021/06/the-dark-side-of-solar-power https://hbr.org/2021/06/the-dark-side-of-solar-power The Solar Boom Will Create Millions of Tons of Junk Panels https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-solar-boom-will-create-millions-of-tons-of-junk-panels-11651658402 https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-solar-boom-will-create-mill... The Global South’s solar e-waste problem https://www.pv-magazine.com/2022/10/03/the-global-souths-solar-e-waste-problem/ https://www.pv-magazine.com/2022/10/03/the-global-souths-sol... Rising power costs worsening solar panel e-waste crisis as people replace panels prematurely https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-06-08/rising-power-costs-worsening-solar-panel-waste-in-landfill/102444862 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-06-08/rising-power-costs-wo... Solar recycling is broken, but there’s a plan to fix it https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/29/22857157/solar-recycling-new-better-method https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/29/22857157/solar-recycling... Are solar panels the next e-waste? https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/sep/03/solar-panels-ewaste https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/sep/03/solar-pa...

xenadu02 3y ago
My information comes from installers and dealers of used panels. The rate of solar panel replacement is extremely low. Very few people replace their panels. Modern panels also don't degrade very quickly, often warrantied for less than 0.5%/year. Most people who do replacements are the much smaller number of early adopters. These are just facts. The supposed "avalanche" of old panels has not appeared. In other words if you compare # of panels produced per year to # of panels being thrown away it is more favorable than most products. Not that any of the articles you posted even make an attempt to run those numbers. I stand by my point: both solar panels and batteries have been steadily improving year after year. They last longer than people think and are not creating a tide of waste as the nay-sayers keep predicting in order to squash these technologies to promote burning fossil fuels.
gaganyaan 3y ago
Your first link is speculative, and just assumes that old solar panels are going to the landfill, which is exactly what OP is saying won't happen. Are your other links relevant at all either?
- culi 3y ago
  much more relevant than OP's unsourced speculations I think! The first link is not "speculative". It's projecting from the current (very high) rate of landfill waste to try to predict how much will be going to the landfill with the ongoing boom
  - gaganyaan 3y ago
    It does no such thing. Why would you lie about that when anyone can just go and read it? > Using real U.S. data, we modeled the incentives affecting consumers’ decisions whether to replace under various scenarios They model replacement, and assume that the replaced equipment is going into a landfill, which is exactly the OP's point that it won't. It's entirely speculative, and based on assumptions OP says aren't true. Why would you post that?