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It’s hard for me to fathom the idea that this deep and profound shared experience we’re all having was not intentional and designed and it seems like it would t

It’s hard for me to fathom the idea that this deep and profound shared experience we’re all having was not intentional and designed and it seems like it would take a lot of effort and mental gymnastics to surgically remove the raw wonder and meaning and significance from so many aspects of reality, to strip everything down, and conclude there is no God. And oddly enough I think a majority of the things people often cite as reasons they can’t or won’t believe in God actually stem from oversimplifying aspects of life that just under the surface would make God quite obvious. The common theme seems to be that of a complaint, some form of “God can’t be real because the nature of things isn’t what I would have done” or “there are aspects of this experience that I don’t prefer”. In my opinion it takes a lot of mental effort to explain our way out of the obvious, and ironically many consider what I see as “obvious” to be primitive and superstitious, due to the very fact that it took so much work to discard it! The body of work that is our collective intelligence is celebrated as some kind of breakthrough or progress if it discards the spiritual or metaphysical when it could very well be the opposite, perhaps it took a lot of work because “explaining reality away” is not an easy task? Not sure how else to describe it, but there has been significant effort in studying things like human psychology, but the idea that by analyzing and categorizing and filtering down human thinking and behavior into neat little packages somehow brings us out of it so we can now stand on the other side saying “look how stupid we once were before we knew about (things we made up)” seems almost like a cheap parlor trick that started with “cover your eyes and hold out your hand”. It’s like we are somehow too self-important in the ways we try and convince ourselves that we are not important?

paulryanrogers 3y ago
So roughly, God exists because of course everything is too beautiful and complex to be explained any other way? IDK I think eternal matter, billions of years, gravity, and a few other fundamentals make emergent life a lot more likely than some all powerful sociopathic entity.
JambalayaJim 3y ago
I find this theist argument to be really exhausting; 1) Why must the human experience be intentional if it is profound? 2) Why does it even actually matter if there is a creator? Everything in human history tells us that we should still live our lives in accordance with reason based ethical systems, and empirical discoveries. These are the only *universal* tools the “creator” has given us. > The common theme seems to be that of a complaint, some form of “God can’t be real because the nature of things isn’t what I would have done” or “there are aspects of this experience that I don’t prefer” Those are just complaints against specific religious dogma. I’m not interested in if they are reasonable or not. There’s only one atheist argument necessary; it’s an unfalsifiable claim. That’s it.
- cmdli 3y ago
  There is the question of where this profoundness comes from. If it comes from an evolutionary instinct for the purposes of reproduction, most would find that disappointing. But why would we find our own true nature disappoiting? Why would evolution give us a desire for something greater than reproduction? As a side note, I’m curious what “reason based ethical systems” you are referring to. Almost all ethical systems I have found require an amount of fiat assumptions that are just as unfalsifiable as god.
  - JambalayaJim 3y ago
    I think it’s just an inherently theistic mindset to flip from “if not God, then it must be evolution”. As opposed to being content with the random happenstance and mystery of it all. And figuring out what your individual life means for yourself. But again as I said, if there is a God it doesn’t change anything really. We’ve still got to figure out what to do with ourselves, and we’ve still got to figure out what ethical systems to use and ignore. I’m not speaking about any one specific system. You’re going to have to provide me with an example of a fiat assumption. I don’t think anything grounded in base human emotions (empathy being a big one) would qualify. Many of our cultural values are grounded in religion and that’s fine (maybe it’s the other way around). Assuming that these values are Gods will and not debatable are dangerous. That’s what I mean by “reason based”.

paulryanrogers 3y ago

So roughly, God exists because of course everything is too beautiful and complex to be explained any other way? IDK I think eternal matter, billions of years, gravity, and a few other fundamentals make emergent life a lot more likely than some all powerful sociopathic entity.

JambalayaJim 3y ago

I find this theist argument to be really exhausting; 1) Why must the human experience be intentional if it is profound? 2) Why does it even actually matter if there is a creator? Everything in human history tells us that we should still live our lives in accordance with reason based ethical systems, and empirical discoveries. These are the only *universal* tools the “creator” has given us. > The common theme seems to be that of a complaint, some form of “God can’t be real because the nature of things isn’t what I would have done” or “there are aspects of this experience that I don’t prefer” Those are just complaints against specific religious dogma. I’m not interested in if they are reasonable or not. There’s only one atheist argument necessary; it’s an unfalsifiable claim. That’s it.

cmdli 3y ago
There is the question of where this profoundness comes from. If it comes from an evolutionary instinct for the purposes of reproduction, most would find that disappointing. But why would we find our own true nature disappoiting? Why would evolution give us a desire for something greater than reproduction? As a side note, I’m curious what “reason based ethical systems” you are referring to. Almost all ethical systems I have found require an amount of fiat assumptions that are just as unfalsifiable as god.
- JambalayaJim 3y ago
  I think it’s just an inherently theistic mindset to flip from “if not God, then it must be evolution”. As opposed to being content with the random happenstance and mystery of it all. And figuring out what your individual life means for yourself. But again as I said, if there is a God it doesn’t change anything really. We’ve still got to figure out what to do with ourselves, and we’ve still got to figure out what ethical systems to use and ignore. I’m not speaking about any one specific system. You’re going to have to provide me with an example of a fiat assumption. I don’t think anything grounded in base human emotions (empathy being a big one) would qualify. Many of our cultural values are grounded in religion and that’s fine (maybe it’s the other way around). Assuming that these values are Gods will and not debatable are dangerous. That’s what I mean by “reason based”.