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Not sure I agree with this advice. Most of webdev today is about actively avoiding the DOM. That's not to say you should not know what is below, but the rabbit

Not sure I agree with this advice. Most of webdev today is about actively avoiding the DOM. That's not to say you should not know what is below, but the rabbit hole can get deep. Accessibility is something that unfortunately is not high on the list of most people's priorities. You might say that's bad, but knowing it will not help someone learning the ropes to get an app done so they can learn more.

austin-cheney 3y ago
That is true, but only for attaining/retaining employment. Otherwise, the DOM remains the compile target of the browser. Your giant framework is a shallow abstraction over this with a massively opaque API. Developers like to put their heads in the sand and wish the world works differently, and that's fine for a while as it greatly increases career mobility. But, pretending and hoping aren't things that elevate your career to more senior positions. This is why we have things like imposter syndrome and expert beginners.
- locallost 3y ago
  Late reply, but I don't disagree with that entirely. I don't think people should be totally ignorant about it, but you can be if you want to learn how to get something basic done (which is what this thread is about). I do however disagree in part because everyone tries to avoid it for a reason. It's a shitty "compile target". I can imagine a world where the canvas becomes a compile target and then all the accumulated DOM quirks become useless knowledge.
  - austin-cheney 3y ago
    > It's a shitty "compile target". The "I don't like it" excuse seems to be the last refuge once developers completely exhaust all valid technical considerations. It always comes down to developers being irrationally afraid of tree models (yes, that is entirely what it is and its stupendously bizarre). If really it was just "I don't like it" then propose something better.

austin-cheney 3y ago

That is true, but only for attaining/retaining employment. Otherwise, the DOM remains the compile target of the browser. Your giant framework is a shallow abstraction over this with a massively opaque API. Developers like to put their heads in the sand and wish the world works differently, and that's fine for a while as it greatly increases career mobility. But, pretending and hoping aren't things that elevate your career to more senior positions. This is why we have things like imposter syndrome and expert beginners.

locallost 3y ago
Late reply, but I don't disagree with that entirely. I don't think people should be totally ignorant about it, but you can be if you want to learn how to get something basic done (which is what this thread is about). I do however disagree in part because everyone tries to avoid it for a reason. It's a shitty "compile target". I can imagine a world where the canvas becomes a compile target and then all the accumulated DOM quirks become useless knowledge.
- austin-cheney 3y ago
  > It's a shitty "compile target". The "I don't like it" excuse seems to be the last refuge once developers completely exhaust all valid technical considerations. It always comes down to developers being irrationally afraid of tree models (yes, that is entirely what it is and its stupendously bizarre). If really it was just "I don't like it" then propose something better.