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> rejected a camera-based monitoring system for Tesla vehicles for being "ineffective," This is a strange take while otherwise claiming cameras are all you nee

> rejected a camera-based monitoring system for Tesla vehicles for being "ineffective," This is a strange take while otherwise claiming cameras are all you need for full safe driving. Is driver monitoring so difficult or is this just Musk's indictment of Tesla's engineering?

andrewstuart2 3y ago
I would assume they'd consider it an ineffective use of effort unless required. Any monitoring system would cost to implement and very likely would reduce sales if it's not entirely customer controlled.
1letterunixname 3y ago
It's mostly bullshit. Other technologies like radar, LIDAR (UV or IR), and FLIR can provide datapoints unavailable in the visual spectrum. Seeing through fog, dust, and darkness are beyond human capabilities that would add significantly to safety. Increasing processing speed and gain in the visual spectrum would also add to safety. Also, I'm curious what current FSD cameras do around sunset. Are they blinded? Can they vary aperture?
- dpcx 3y ago
  I think the discussion above is about using cameras to monitor the driver as a means to replace the torque test needed on the wheel, not technologies for outside the car.
- nomel 3y ago
  > what current FSD cameras do around sunset They have impressive dynamic range, but can be blinded. I wonder how much of this is related to camera window cleanliness though. https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/i5usdv/fsd_low_sun_angle_and_cameras/ https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/i5usdv/fsd_low... https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/5zxnoj/autopilot_blinded_by_sun/?rdt=42534 https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/5zxnoj/autopil...
  - 1letterunixname 3y ago
    Yes, and are there warnings about this? Perhaps areas with cameras should have special coatings and/or dedicated wiper devices.
    - nomel 3y ago
      > Yes, and are there warnings about this? Yes, of course. Autopilot will disable itself. Here's how race cars do it. A reel of plastic film, to always allow a clean view. A broken camera, showing the reels: https://imgur.com/a/Hzxg7pt https://imgur.com/a/Hzxg7pt
      - 1letterunixname 3y ago
        Yep. And boats and CNC machines do with with circular spinny things that use centrifugal force instead of a physical cleaning element.
- gamblor956 3y ago
  Also, I'm curious what current FSD cameras do around sunset. Are they blinded? Yes, if you drive on the 105 Freeway in LA in the Hawthorne area (heading east in the morning or west in the evenings, into the sun) you'll notice a lot of Teslas driving erratically, like teenagers learning to brake for the first time. It's not so noticeable in rush hour traffic, but it's very noticeable when traffic isn't heavy. My coworkers that drive Teslas no longer use AP or FSD as they are terrified of it.

andrewstuart2 3y ago

I would assume they'd consider it an ineffective use of effort unless required. Any monitoring system would cost to implement and very likely would reduce sales if it's not entirely customer controlled.

1letterunixname 3y ago

It's mostly bullshit. Other technologies like radar, LIDAR (UV or IR), and FLIR can provide datapoints unavailable in the visual spectrum. Seeing through fog, dust, and darkness are beyond human capabilities that would add significantly to safety. Increasing processing speed and gain in the visual spectrum would also add to safety. Also, I'm curious what current FSD cameras do around sunset. Are they blinded? Can they vary aperture?

dpcx 3y ago
I think the discussion above is about using cameras to monitor the driver as a means to replace the torque test needed on the wheel, not technologies for outside the car.
nomel 3y ago
> what current FSD cameras do around sunset They have impressive dynamic range, but can be blinded. I wonder how much of this is related to camera window cleanliness though. https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/i5usdv/fsd_low_sun_angle_and_cameras/ https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/i5usdv/fsd_low... https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/5zxnoj/autopilot_blinded_by_sun/?rdt=42534 https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/5zxnoj/autopil...
- 1letterunixname 3y ago
  Yes, and are there warnings about this? Perhaps areas with cameras should have special coatings and/or dedicated wiper devices.
  - nomel 3y ago
    > Yes, and are there warnings about this? Yes, of course. Autopilot will disable itself. Here's how race cars do it. A reel of plastic film, to always allow a clean view. A broken camera, showing the reels: https://imgur.com/a/Hzxg7pt https://imgur.com/a/Hzxg7pt
    - 1letterunixname 3y ago
      Yep. And boats and CNC machines do with with circular spinny things that use centrifugal force instead of a physical cleaning element.
gamblor956 3y ago
Also, I'm curious what current FSD cameras do around sunset. Are they blinded? Yes, if you drive on the 105 Freeway in LA in the Hawthorne area (heading east in the morning or west in the evenings, into the sun) you'll notice a lot of Teslas driving erratically, like teenagers learning to brake for the first time. It's not so noticeable in rush hour traffic, but it's very noticeable when traffic isn't heavy. My coworkers that drive Teslas no longer use AP or FSD as they are terrified of it.