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> I have several Indian friends I've made during my stay here, and not a single time has the issue of caste has come up to be discussed. I'm guessing it's not

> I have several Indian friends I've made during my stay here, and not a single time has the issue of caste has come up to be discussed. I'm guessing it's not discussed at great length and not discussed with non-Indian people at all unless you brimg it up.

moralestapia 3y ago
If you're trying to hint at some "it happens all the time, it's just hidden from public view", it doesn't. Non-Indians literally don't care, and very (very) few Indians actually do (at least in Canada).
- cududa 3y ago
  > If you're trying to hint at some "it happens all the time, it's just hidden from public view", it doesn't. > Non-Indians literally don't care These are contradicting statements. We know non-Indians don't care ... because most of us don't even know about it, at least in any capacity to have a strong opinion. Maybe non-Indians "literally" not caring is why "it's just hidden from public view"
  - moralestapia 3y ago
    By "don't care", I didn't mean "they know but don't care"; I meant "non-Indians are completely oblivious of this". You cannot accuse of someone behaving in a discriminatory way if those very concepts of discrimination don't even exist in their mind. Come on.
    - cududa 3y ago
      You are entirely missing my point. What I'm saying is the concept of caste discrimination doesn't exist in the minds of the vast majority of Westerners. Which would enable the exact scenario you pose: > If you're trying to hint at some "it happens all the time, it's just hidden from public view", it doesn't. How would anyone outside the caste system be aware of it occurring? And why would people benefiting from their caste talk about it?
      - moralestapia 3y ago
        [flagged]
      - kredd 3y ago
        If you live in Canada, you most likely have known some Indians and the caste system. It’s just we don’t care? It’s not a taboo topic of discussion either. Obviously a much different topic if the caste system prevails itself within Indian communities itself. Unfortunately I can’t comment much on it, but I’ve heard that’s not extremely uncommon among recent immigrants.
- kristianp 3y ago
  No, I just don't think your statement supports your argument, because its a topic that might not be discussed in front of you. I think the article is implying that the discrimination is by other Indians, non Indians don't care, thats assumed.
- newyankee 3y ago
  The regional differences (Gujaratis vs Punjabis vs Telegus) are more pronounced than any caste based differences that I have come across.
- klyrs 3y ago
  As a non-Indian in Canada, I think it's pretty hard not to notice when one department is full of people named Jain, just like the department head. While I wouldn't expect to notice in less obvious cases, I care, and it sure seems like that department head cares.
- araes 3y ago
  The issue is not with the non-Indians, at least not directly. And with the Indians, it's that a few do, have moved to positions of responsibility, and can influence opinion enough to make life difficult (at least that is my external view). Google and Cisco's issues last year [1] [2] made a lot of folks aware that something was inside a lot of big tech because of all the H1B's, foreign hiring, outsourcing, ect... The behavior was being brought over from India and then existing in the corporate ladder. (avoiding the word "hide") It's also subtle. It's not, "you're dalit, act like a dalit." It's leaving you out of meetings, getting assignments that don't matter, not listening when you talk. It's a bit like a dance. They don't sneer at you, they don't act openly racist, they just don't dance with you. "why are you touching me?" [1] https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/googles-caste-bias-problem https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/googles-caste-bias-pr... [2] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/big-techs-big-problem-also-best-kept-secret-caste-discrimination-rcna33692 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/big-techs-big-pro...
  - rajup 3y ago
    Curious what issues you are referring to with those 2 companies (be specific please)? I'm not sure if you know but the Cisco case was thrown out recently because there was zero evidence, in fact the alleged perpetrator of the discrimination had hired another Dalit (so called "lower" caste) into the same position. I'm not making this up, it's all public information. As for Google, all I see is that they (rightfully) withdrew an invitation to a speaker who has made a bunch of troubling bigoted statements bashing Hindus as a whole. Again all this is public information you can look it up. Can you please cite just one genuinely valid case of caste discrimination in the USA that has stood up to even cursory scrutiny?

moralestapia 3y ago

If you're trying to hint at some "it happens all the time, it's just hidden from public view", it doesn't. Non-Indians literally don't care, and very (very) few Indians actually do (at least in Canada).

cududa 3y ago
> If you're trying to hint at some "it happens all the time, it's just hidden from public view", it doesn't. > Non-Indians literally don't care These are contradicting statements. We know non-Indians don't care ... because most of us don't even know about it, at least in any capacity to have a strong opinion. Maybe non-Indians "literally" not caring is why "it's just hidden from public view"
- moralestapia 3y ago
  By "don't care", I didn't mean "they know but don't care"; I meant "non-Indians are completely oblivious of this". You cannot accuse of someone behaving in a discriminatory way if those very concepts of discrimination don't even exist in their mind. Come on.
  - cududa 3y ago
    You are entirely missing my point. What I'm saying is the concept of caste discrimination doesn't exist in the minds of the vast majority of Westerners. Which would enable the exact scenario you pose: > If you're trying to hint at some "it happens all the time, it's just hidden from public view", it doesn't. How would anyone outside the caste system be aware of it occurring? And why would people benefiting from their caste talk about it?
    - moralestapia 3y ago
      [flagged]
    - kredd 3y ago
      If you live in Canada, you most likely have known some Indians and the caste system. It’s just we don’t care? It’s not a taboo topic of discussion either. Obviously a much different topic if the caste system prevails itself within Indian communities itself. Unfortunately I can’t comment much on it, but I’ve heard that’s not extremely uncommon among recent immigrants.
kristianp 3y ago
No, I just don't think your statement supports your argument, because its a topic that might not be discussed in front of you. I think the article is implying that the discrimination is by other Indians, non Indians don't care, thats assumed.
newyankee 3y ago
The regional differences (Gujaratis vs Punjabis vs Telegus) are more pronounced than any caste based differences that I have come across.
klyrs 3y ago
As a non-Indian in Canada, I think it's pretty hard not to notice when one department is full of people named Jain, just like the department head. While I wouldn't expect to notice in less obvious cases, I care, and it sure seems like that department head cares.
araes 3y ago
The issue is not with the non-Indians, at least not directly. And with the Indians, it's that a few do, have moved to positions of responsibility, and can influence opinion enough to make life difficult (at least that is my external view). Google and Cisco's issues last year [1] [2] made a lot of folks aware that something was inside a lot of big tech because of all the H1B's, foreign hiring, outsourcing, ect... The behavior was being brought over from India and then existing in the corporate ladder. (avoiding the word "hide") It's also subtle. It's not, "you're dalit, act like a dalit." It's leaving you out of meetings, getting assignments that don't matter, not listening when you talk. It's a bit like a dance. They don't sneer at you, they don't act openly racist, they just don't dance with you. "why are you touching me?" [1] https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/googles-caste-bias-problem https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/googles-caste-bias-pr... [2] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/big-techs-big-problem-also-best-kept-secret-caste-discrimination-rcna33692 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/big-techs-big-pro...
- rajup 3y ago
  Curious what issues you are referring to with those 2 companies (be specific please)? I'm not sure if you know but the Cisco case was thrown out recently because there was zero evidence, in fact the alleged perpetrator of the discrimination had hired another Dalit (so called "lower" caste) into the same position. I'm not making this up, it's all public information. As for Google, all I see is that they (rightfully) withdrew an invitation to a speaker who has made a bunch of troubling bigoted statements bashing Hindus as a whole. Again all this is public information you can look it up. Can you please cite just one genuinely valid case of caste discrimination in the USA that has stood up to even cursory scrutiny?