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Did you know that money doesn't come from a magic tree? And since it doesn't come from a magic tree, it has to come from customers or from profits. And a lot

Did you know that money doesn't come from a magic tree? And since it doesn't come from a magic tree, it has to come from customers or from profits. And a lot of these businesses have low profit margins to begin with (ie health insurance). Those businesses that are already low margin do have to pass the costs on to customers otherwise the risk adjusted return of their business is not worth it compared to savings bonds. Ultimately if the cost of doing business is higher whether its because the government has imposed additional fees or because your money tree died, the cost of the producing the product has gone up and this has to be an upward pressure on prices. Unless you're running a money tree farm which must be the "smallest businesses" you're referring to.

wolverine876 3y ago
I'm sure you have some great ideas and we could have learned some things from each other. See the discussion below, for example.
ralferoo 3y ago
> And since it doesn't come from a magic tree, it has to come from customers or from profits. As a fairly impartial outsider (I'm from the UK and the price we see advertised for broadband on the website after entering our address is the price we pay), I'd like to counter that by simply agreeing that yes, the obvious outcome is that the customer pays for the fees. However, that's not what this discussion is about. The discussion is about whether the customer is told the price will be $X and then they have to pay $Y where Y is considerably more than X. Instead of appealing to the magic money tree, companies simply need to be honest when they tell customers the price. They are free to keep the same prices, they just now need to say the price is $Y, and can choose to say that it's comprised of $X and then all these other things or just say it's $Y and leave it at that. The reason companies don't want to do that, is they want to compete on having the lowest number for $X and sneak as many extra charges into the real price $Y in the hopes that customers don't discover it until they're locked into a contract. Part of the problem is that the US has had this tradition for a long time with sales tax. Now I can understand online shops listing prices without sales tax, because it genuinely depends on where the customer lives. But in a regular real-world shop, they know exactly where the shop is and what the final cost of an item will be when it's sold, regardless of who buys it. You have the same thing with tipping - you buy food at a restaurant, and then get told some nonsense that amounts to "because we don't pay our workers a fair wage, we're going to add an extra 20% on top of the price we offered and on top of taxes and all the rest". With your money tree argument, I'm surprised you're not in favour of your restaurants advertising a steak at $20, then when the bill arrives it's $20 plus $30 for the ingredients, $20 for the cook, $10 for the dishwasher, $10 for the waitress, $10 for the supervisor, $5 for the parking lot because the company rents that from someone, $2 for the company's phone line, $2 for the gas and electricity used, $1 because they need to clean the tables between customers, $2 for the condiments you might have used, and and did we mention that we want 20% tip as well. Yes, this is all the cost of business, but the customer doesn't need to know all that - they are, after all, just buying a steak. The situation with broadband should be just as simple - "I want an internet connection. How much do you want to provide it to me?"
- wolverine876 3y ago
  > yes, the obvious outcome is that the customer pays for the fees That's false. See the GGP.

wolverine876 3y ago

I'm sure you have some great ideas and we could have learned some things from each other. See the discussion below, for example.

ralferoo 3y ago

> And since it doesn't come from a magic tree, it has to come from customers or from profits. As a fairly impartial outsider (I'm from the UK and the price we see advertised for broadband on the website after entering our address is the price we pay), I'd like to counter that by simply agreeing that yes, the obvious outcome is that the customer pays for the fees. However, that's not what this discussion is about. The discussion is about whether the customer is told the price will be $X and then they have to pay $Y where Y is considerably more than X. Instead of appealing to the magic money tree, companies simply need to be honest when they tell customers the price. They are free to keep the same prices, they just now need to say the price is $Y, and can choose to say that it's comprised of $X and then all these other things or just say it's $Y and leave it at that. The reason companies don't want to do that, is they want to compete on having the lowest number for $X and sneak as many extra charges into the real price $Y in the hopes that customers don't discover it until they're locked into a contract. Part of the problem is that the US has had this tradition for a long time with sales tax. Now I can understand online shops listing prices without sales tax, because it genuinely depends on where the customer lives. But in a regular real-world shop, they know exactly where the shop is and what the final cost of an item will be when it's sold, regardless of who buys it. You have the same thing with tipping - you buy food at a restaurant, and then get told some nonsense that amounts to "because we don't pay our workers a fair wage, we're going to add an extra 20% on top of the price we offered and on top of taxes and all the rest". With your money tree argument, I'm surprised you're not in favour of your restaurants advertising a steak at $20, then when the bill arrives it's $20 plus $30 for the ingredients, $20 for the cook, $10 for the dishwasher, $10 for the waitress, $10 for the supervisor, $5 for the parking lot because the company rents that from someone, $2 for the company's phone line, $2 for the gas and electricity used, $1 because they need to clean the tables between customers, $2 for the condiments you might have used, and and did we mention that we want 20% tip as well. Yes, this is all the cost of business, but the customer doesn't need to know all that - they are, after all, just buying a steak. The situation with broadband should be just as simple - "I want an internet connection. How much do you want to provide it to me?"

wolverine876 3y ago
> yes, the obvious outcome is that the customer pays for the fees That's false. See the GGP.