4 ms·

So it’s like playing a fake victim card?

rhaway84773 3y ago
And yet 1 out of 180 CS professors are OBCs despite the population being over 40%. It’s probably closer to the welfare queen trope. Yeah, there are a few people who cheat the system, like any other system in the world. Thaw existence of cheaters does not negate the very real problems and challenges faced by the actual “victims”.
- varunpant 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - Philpax 3y ago
    Yes, and?
    - OkayPhysicist 3y ago
      Dude really said the quiet part out loud. Caste discrimination is just another kind of bigotry, like sexism and racism.
  - UncleMeat 3y ago
    1/180 is very very very different than 4/10. That's not just some statistical anomaly.
  - lozenge 3y ago
    There's nothing biologically different about these people. The only difference is how they're treated by society.
  - michaelchisari 3y ago
    I'm not one who believes that perfect representational parity is possible or even desirable within all social groupings. That said, I see no reason to ignore the implication of a 1% vs 40% disparity within a highly advantageous profession.
  - kelnos 3y ago
    Right, they absolutely should fight for equal representation. The numbers aren't always going to be exactly equal to representation, sure. But when you have a group that comprises 40% of society only represented by a half percent in prestigious university faculty positions, you need to step back and figure out what's going on there. These people are not genetically different or of lower intelligence; they've literally been not allowed to hold these positions even if they wanted them and could be qualified for them. Frankly, your point of view is advocating for bigotry and oppression, and I suggest you re-evaluate why that is so.
  - hef19898 3y ago
    And where would that end, right? /s Thanks for saying the quiet part out loud so.
- naravara 3y ago
  There was functionally no public education system available to most Indians until a decent bit after Independence, and even now most rural communities have atrocious schooling standards with chronically absentee teachers. India has been an extremely poor country for a long time. It’s not a situation like the US where there were plenty of opportunities available and some segment of society is gated out of them. Almost all Indians save for a narrow clade of people who worked directly under the imperial administration of the British Empire had access to anything, and even those were the cream of the crop from the pre-British days who could translate their prior privileges to getting ahead of their peers in the rat race. It’s basically tautological to say OBCs are underrepresented in the upper echelons of society. That’s literally how the category is defined. The system was set up from colonialism on down to leave very few positions with contemporary standards of dignity for “natives” to occupy.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
alephnerd 3y ago
Not exactly. There is a very real economic divide between rural India and urban India. Even if you were from a feudal landlord family, 30 years ago you might have not even had running water or electricity. But at least you had a solid house, instead of living in a mud hut (if you were lucky) like most Dalits and Nomads in rural India back then. If someone from an elite rural family came to the city, their privilige automatically becomes moot because in a purely capitalist society Money begets Privilige. In the 1990s-to-present, there was a massive migration from rural India to cities, and a number of formerly priviliged Men (it's men who become migrant workers) were at the bottom rung of the urban social ladder. And they were/are PISSED. So in retaliation, they began organizing their own Castes to fight for political power and quotas. Also, in India, Affirmative Action is a Quota System, unlike the US where Quotas are unconstitutional. This means you are playing a Zero Sum game where one family's Affirmative Action might doom your family to poverty. This makes the situation highly volatile.
- hef19898 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - cududa 3y ago
    What "sort of problems" do you mean, exactly?
    - hef19898 3y ago
      Schhol shootings in the US, Neo-Nazis in East Germany, islamist terrorists. They all have in common of being, over simplifying, frustrated, in secure young men. They are easily manipulated by populists and ideologists, prone to use violence and prone to be sexist, racist etc. I guess that is becaise the way they see themselves, or what they think society expects them to be, is something they do not get. Hence the incredible amount of frustration. Frustration that breeds, especially when combined with a sense of entitlement and inhrained superiority, radicals like nothing else. Bonus points if thes can see themselves as the victims, conspiracy theories go a long way in building some groups conspiring against them.

And yet 1 out of 180 CS professors are OBCs despite the population being over 40%. It’s probably closer to the welfare queen trope. Yeah, there are a few people who cheat the system, like any other system in the world. Thaw existence of cheaters does not negate the very real problems and challenges faced by the actual “victims”.

varunpant 3y ago
[flagged]
- Philpax 3y ago
  Yes, and?
  - OkayPhysicist 3y ago
    Dude really said the quiet part out loud. Caste discrimination is just another kind of bigotry, like sexism and racism.
- UncleMeat 3y ago
  1/180 is very very very different than 4/10. That's not just some statistical anomaly.
- lozenge 3y ago
  There's nothing biologically different about these people. The only difference is how they're treated by society.
- michaelchisari 3y ago
  I'm not one who believes that perfect representational parity is possible or even desirable within all social groupings. That said, I see no reason to ignore the implication of a 1% vs 40% disparity within a highly advantageous profession.
- kelnos 3y ago
  Right, they absolutely should fight for equal representation. The numbers aren't always going to be exactly equal to representation, sure. But when you have a group that comprises 40% of society only represented by a half percent in prestigious university faculty positions, you need to step back and figure out what's going on there. These people are not genetically different or of lower intelligence; they've literally been not allowed to hold these positions even if they wanted them and could be qualified for them. Frankly, your point of view is advocating for bigotry and oppression, and I suggest you re-evaluate why that is so.
- hef19898 3y ago
  And where would that end, right? /s Thanks for saying the quiet part out loud so.
naravara 3y ago
There was functionally no public education system available to most Indians until a decent bit after Independence, and even now most rural communities have atrocious schooling standards with chronically absentee teachers. India has been an extremely poor country for a long time. It’s not a situation like the US where there were plenty of opportunities available and some segment of society is gated out of them. Almost all Indians save for a narrow clade of people who worked directly under the imperial administration of the British Empire had access to anything, and even those were the cream of the crop from the pre-British days who could translate their prior privileges to getting ahead of their peers in the rat race. It’s basically tautological to say OBCs are underrepresented in the upper echelons of society. That’s literally how the category is defined. The system was set up from colonialism on down to leave very few positions with contemporary standards of dignity for “natives” to occupy.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

alephnerd 3y ago

Not exactly. There is a very real economic divide between rural India and urban India. Even if you were from a feudal landlord family, 30 years ago you might have not even had running water or electricity. But at least you had a solid house, instead of living in a mud hut (if you were lucky) like most Dalits and Nomads in rural India back then. If someone from an elite rural family came to the city, their privilige automatically becomes moot because in a purely capitalist society Money begets Privilige. In the 1990s-to-present, there was a massive migration from rural India to cities, and a number of formerly priviliged Men (it's men who become migrant workers) were at the bottom rung of the urban social ladder. And they were/are PISSED. So in retaliation, they began organizing their own Castes to fight for political power and quotas. Also, in India, Affirmative Action is a Quota System, unlike the US where Quotas are unconstitutional. This means you are playing a Zero Sum game where one family's Affirmative Action might doom your family to poverty. This makes the situation highly volatile.

hef19898 3y ago
[flagged]
- cududa 3y ago
  What "sort of problems" do you mean, exactly?
  - hef19898 3y ago
    Schhol shootings in the US, Neo-Nazis in East Germany, islamist terrorists. They all have in common of being, over simplifying, frustrated, in secure young men. They are easily manipulated by populists and ideologists, prone to use violence and prone to be sexist, racist etc. I guess that is becaise the way they see themselves, or what they think society expects them to be, is something they do not get. Hence the incredible amount of frustration. Frustration that breeds, especially when combined with a sense of entitlement and inhrained superiority, radicals like nothing else. Bonus points if thes can see themselves as the victims, conspiracy theories go a long way in building some groups conspiring against them.