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The problem is how to bill users for electricity consumed, because charging a car can cost $10 or more. The simplest solution would be a kWh meter on the outle

by p1mrx 3y ago

The problem is how to bill users for electricity consumed, because charging a car can cost $10 or more. The simplest solution would be a kWh meter on the outlet, but someone has to read it. Next would be a bluetooth, NFC, or optical interface that lets you send kWh credits from your phone without the charger itself needing a cell modem, but then the problem is how to store value on a phone without double spending or losing the money. That seems really hard, though a campground could probably get by with a 95% solution that errs on the side of refunding to the customer.

mulmen 3y ago
So, a gas pump? Not everything needs to be an app. Especially in a world where almost nobody can build an app that actually functions.
vel0city 3y ago
You'd have a credit card terminal connected to a relay, ammeter, and ground fault protection circuits. Credit card authorized, engage the relay, track the current, calculate some rate * amps * time. But if you're there, you're already most the way there to the "complicated" EVSE.
olyjohn 3y ago
If people are too dumb to read a meter that goes from 0-1000kwh, maybe they shouldn't be driving. And if they're that dumb, why does having some app with some shitty bluetooth connectivity that doesn't work half the time solve the problem? Just put in your card at the machine FFS. Treat it just like a gas pump. this is not technically difficult, but I feel like everybody is making it out to be some difficult problem. Gas and electricity refill a vehicle in exactly the same way. You put in X amount of energy, go X amount of miles. Electricity just takes longer to charge, but otherwise what is so different? And somehow every gas station managed to authorize your credit card even in the most remote of bumfuck places. Even where all there is is a land line, they can still dial out to authorize. Again, solved problem. If you want to have an account and an app, fine. Don't force everybody else to have it.
- p1mrx 3y ago
  > If people are too dumb to read a meter that goes from 0-1000kwh, maybe they shouldn't be driving. The meter needs to be read by a campground attendant after every stay, to determine who used the electricity. This is straightforward but labor intensive. Adding a card reader and data connectivity to a campsite would greatly increase capital and ongoing maintenance costs. The same applies to condo/apartment parking spaces.
xxs 3y ago
Credit card/any NFC device, set max power delivered per charge - block the money beforehand, commit the payment transaction at the end/disconnect. Apps are absolutely not needed
- p1mrx 3y ago
  This would require data connectivity at every campsite. Too expensive to scale.
  - xxs 3y ago
    I'd expect to have some mobile data connection at most parts of the US (through Europe that would not be an issue the slightest). The data transfer needed is really low. There is a need only for a single point with inet connectivity. The wifi part costs as little as a couple of dollars. The entire thing can be trivially built by off-the-shelf components and it won't 'hard' to scale at any rate. For example a triac 600V/40A is less than $5 - that's the power control (need 3 for 3-phase).

by p1mrx 3y ago

mulmen 3y ago

So, a gas pump? Not everything needs to be an app. Especially in a world where almost nobody can build an app that actually functions.

vel0city 3y ago

You'd have a credit card terminal connected to a relay, ammeter, and ground fault protection circuits. Credit card authorized, engage the relay, track the current, calculate some rate * amps * time. But if you're there, you're already most the way there to the "complicated" EVSE.

olyjohn 3y ago

If people are too dumb to read a meter that goes from 0-1000kwh, maybe they shouldn't be driving. And if they're that dumb, why does having some app with some shitty bluetooth connectivity that doesn't work half the time solve the problem? Just put in your card at the machine FFS. Treat it just like a gas pump. this is not technically difficult, but I feel like everybody is making it out to be some difficult problem. Gas and electricity refill a vehicle in exactly the same way. You put in X amount of energy, go X amount of miles. Electricity just takes longer to charge, but otherwise what is so different? And somehow every gas station managed to authorize your credit card even in the most remote of bumfuck places. Even where all there is is a land line, they can still dial out to authorize. Again, solved problem. If you want to have an account and an app, fine. Don't force everybody else to have it.

p1mrx 3y ago
> If people are too dumb to read a meter that goes from 0-1000kwh, maybe they shouldn't be driving. The meter needs to be read by a campground attendant after every stay, to determine who used the electricity. This is straightforward but labor intensive. Adding a card reader and data connectivity to a campsite would greatly increase capital and ongoing maintenance costs. The same applies to condo/apartment parking spaces.

xxs 3y ago

Credit card/any NFC device, set max power delivered per charge - block the money beforehand, commit the payment transaction at the end/disconnect. Apps are absolutely not needed

p1mrx 3y ago
This would require data connectivity at every campsite. Too expensive to scale.
- xxs 3y ago
  I'd expect to have some mobile data connection at most parts of the US (through Europe that would not be an issue the slightest). The data transfer needed is really low. There is a need only for a single point with inet connectivity. The wifi part costs as little as a couple of dollars. The entire thing can be trivially built by off-the-shelf components and it won't 'hard' to scale at any rate. For example a triac 600V/40A is less than $5 - that's the power control (need 3 for 3-phase).