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Honestly I think this is majorly overblown. Having lived in both India and the US and being in my late 30s, I’ve never seen caste come up in any conversation ev

Honestly I think this is majorly overblown. Having lived in both India and the US and being in my late 30s, I’ve never seen caste come up in any conversation even once. That’s tens of thousands of Indian people at the very least. Feels like this person is hyper aware of his caste and seems to take steps bordering on paranoia.

username135 3y ago
There we have it. It's a non issue so let's move on folks.
- turbohz 3y ago
  Works on my computer!
whalesalad 3y ago
The unfortunate side effect of being subjected to this sort of insanity from a young age. That conditioning is very hard to shake off.
daveguy 3y ago
Just curious, what caste were you born into?
flownoon2 3y ago
The author says that: 1. OBCs are estimated to comprise 40-45% of India's population and 2. Exactly one out of 180 CS faculty members across five IITs belongs to OBC category Those two facts alone make it sound like a pretty big deal to me, even if it hasn't been a part of your experience in India. Or do you think he is wrong about those numbers?
- soligern 3y ago
  Historically and culturally the higher castes are more educationally oriented so it wouldn’t be surprising. The caste system is rapidly breaking down but only for about the last generation. I presume it’s going to take time for representation within college professors being one of the most erudite fields. On the other hand, there is tremendous representation within the government, judges, police, teachers, civil servants, engineers etc. Modi the PM is an OBC, the president is also OBC. A very large number of politicians are from lower castes.
- darth_avocado 3y ago
  The numbers could be right, but you couldn’t exactly argue discrimination tbh. 27% seats are reserved for OBC students in IITs There is a similar quota for people in OBC categories in govt jobs (which IIT professors are). Maybe there are plenty of OBC professors, but not in CS? Or that they don’t openly identify as OBC? Or maybe, people just don’t qualify/apply to the position?
  - rhaway84773 3y ago
    Lol and why don’t they qualify? Because of centuries of discrimination that has kept them poorer and less educated. You might be able to argue that there is no discrimination today and that the hiring process itself is not discriminatory, but the outcomes are entirely the result of discrimination in society.
    - hn_99 3y ago
      This discussion made me curious, how is the cause of their poverty and lack of opportunity relevant? There are hundreds of millions of underprivileged people in India, why should those from a lower caste be given precedence over others, even if there is a history of oppression behind their poverty?
      - darth_avocado 3y ago
        But that is exactly what exists. You could be born in a “lower caste” but a wealthy family, you’d have a preferential treatment over someone who is poor but is born in a “higher caste”.
      - OkayPhysicist 3y ago
        So there's basically three views on social welfare. The far right doesn't want it to exist at all, or if it must exist it should be funneled towards the already powerful, because nobody deserves it. The left says that we need to distribute social welfare in order to equalize society, because everyone deserves a good life. The liberals, in between the two, view welfare as a means to make up for societal failures or outright wrongs. It's not about the fact that these people are needy, it's about the fact that they're needy and it's our fault. Race/caste/etc based welfare distribution comes from that last model.
- rhaway84773 3y ago
  Caste is absolutely a huge problem in India as these numbers show. It’s a different question whether it’s a problem in Western companies, especially outside India, and I’m not sure about the data for that. That being said, even this statistic shows that we should be wary of mapping our understanding of other kinds of discrimination onto caste without being very careful. In an idealized version of the caste system (which you will see some bigots use to defend it but in the real world the idealized version is nowhere to be seen), it’s literally impossible for those lower caste numbers to be anything other than 0%, because in the idealized version your caste is defined by your profession, so being a professor means you’re not any of those castes.
- seatac76 3y ago
  I think the case is highlighted pretty well, clearly the representation is less because of continued/historical lack of access. Seems to be something that should addressed asap because this is clearly holding the Indian economy and social progress back, efficient use of labor and capital is key, seems to me this is an obvious hindrance. The bit about names is interesting, seems like something that has a hold on society and people go out of their way to conform to it. Like it is subliminal, not externally evident like race so it should be theoretically an easier problem to solve, I wonder if education and economic progress can resolve this, ironic as it is.
- unmole 3y ago
  Can you think of a ethno-religious group, one that has been persecuted for centuries, that is over represented in US academia, media and finance? Is it a big deal that this is the case and does it imply a grand conspiracy? Or are there other explanations?
banshiram123 3y ago
[flagged]
Philpax 3y ago
Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen...
aj7 3y ago
When you’re getting f’d over, it never “comes up in conversation.”
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
darth_avocado 3y ago
There are two sides to the story. Yes caste does come up in India in daily life, the more rural you go, the more important it becomes. That being said, there is also an element of obsession with caste in people who are well removed from the discrimination because they’re doing well socio economically. Sometimes people feel discriminated against because generally that’s what you’re told you should expect, but sometimes you over compensate for your insecurities and people just don’t like you for who you are. I’ve had plenty of people from OBC come up to me in the US and ask my caste, and when I don’t engage, they feel almost insulted. Context: I’m not OBC but I’m not up there in the caste ladder either. And I’ve basically completely blocked the whole caste system from my brain.
PixelForg 3y ago
I wasn't even aware of my caste (ST) until I joined intermediate(equivalent to 11-12 grade). I feel like I'm lucky that I didn't face any sort of caste discrimination. I guess it depends on which part of India you live in.

username135 3y ago

There we have it. It's a non issue so let's move on folks.

turbohz 3y ago
Works on my computer!

whalesalad 3y ago

The unfortunate side effect of being subjected to this sort of insanity from a young age. That conditioning is very hard to shake off.

daveguy 3y ago

Just curious, what caste were you born into?

flownoon2 3y ago

The author says that: 1. OBCs are estimated to comprise 40-45% of India's population and 2. Exactly one out of 180 CS faculty members across five IITs belongs to OBC category Those two facts alone make it sound like a pretty big deal to me, even if it hasn't been a part of your experience in India. Or do you think he is wrong about those numbers?

soligern 3y ago
Historically and culturally the higher castes are more educationally oriented so it wouldn’t be surprising. The caste system is rapidly breaking down but only for about the last generation. I presume it’s going to take time for representation within college professors being one of the most erudite fields. On the other hand, there is tremendous representation within the government, judges, police, teachers, civil servants, engineers etc. Modi the PM is an OBC, the president is also OBC. A very large number of politicians are from lower castes.
darth_avocado 3y ago
The numbers could be right, but you couldn’t exactly argue discrimination tbh. 27% seats are reserved for OBC students in IITs There is a similar quota for people in OBC categories in govt jobs (which IIT professors are). Maybe there are plenty of OBC professors, but not in CS? Or that they don’t openly identify as OBC? Or maybe, people just don’t qualify/apply to the position?
- rhaway84773 3y ago
  Lol and why don’t they qualify? Because of centuries of discrimination that has kept them poorer and less educated. You might be able to argue that there is no discrimination today and that the hiring process itself is not discriminatory, but the outcomes are entirely the result of discrimination in society.
  - hn_99 3y ago
    This discussion made me curious, how is the cause of their poverty and lack of opportunity relevant? There are hundreds of millions of underprivileged people in India, why should those from a lower caste be given precedence over others, even if there is a history of oppression behind their poverty?
    - darth_avocado 3y ago
      But that is exactly what exists. You could be born in a “lower caste” but a wealthy family, you’d have a preferential treatment over someone who is poor but is born in a “higher caste”.
    - OkayPhysicist 3y ago
      So there's basically three views on social welfare. The far right doesn't want it to exist at all, or if it must exist it should be funneled towards the already powerful, because nobody deserves it. The left says that we need to distribute social welfare in order to equalize society, because everyone deserves a good life. The liberals, in between the two, view welfare as a means to make up for societal failures or outright wrongs. It's not about the fact that these people are needy, it's about the fact that they're needy and it's our fault. Race/caste/etc based welfare distribution comes from that last model.
rhaway84773 3y ago
Caste is absolutely a huge problem in India as these numbers show. It’s a different question whether it’s a problem in Western companies, especially outside India, and I’m not sure about the data for that. That being said, even this statistic shows that we should be wary of mapping our understanding of other kinds of discrimination onto caste without being very careful. In an idealized version of the caste system (which you will see some bigots use to defend it but in the real world the idealized version is nowhere to be seen), it’s literally impossible for those lower caste numbers to be anything other than 0%, because in the idealized version your caste is defined by your profession, so being a professor means you’re not any of those castes.
seatac76 3y ago
I think the case is highlighted pretty well, clearly the representation is less because of continued/historical lack of access. Seems to be something that should addressed asap because this is clearly holding the Indian economy and social progress back, efficient use of labor and capital is key, seems to me this is an obvious hindrance. The bit about names is interesting, seems like something that has a hold on society and people go out of their way to conform to it. Like it is subliminal, not externally evident like race so it should be theoretically an easier problem to solve, I wonder if education and economic progress can resolve this, ironic as it is.
unmole 3y ago
Can you think of a ethno-religious group, one that has been persecuted for centuries, that is over represented in US academia, media and finance? Is it a big deal that this is the case and does it imply a grand conspiracy? Or are there other explanations?

banshiram123 3y ago

[flagged]

Philpax 3y ago

Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen...

aj7 3y ago

When you’re getting f’d over, it never “comes up in conversation.”

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

darth_avocado 3y ago

There are two sides to the story. Yes caste does come up in India in daily life, the more rural you go, the more important it becomes. That being said, there is also an element of obsession with caste in people who are well removed from the discrimination because they’re doing well socio economically. Sometimes people feel discriminated against because generally that’s what you’re told you should expect, but sometimes you over compensate for your insecurities and people just don’t like you for who you are. I’ve had plenty of people from OBC come up to me in the US and ask my caste, and when I don’t engage, they feel almost insulted. Context: I’m not OBC but I’m not up there in the caste ladder either. And I’ve basically completely blocked the whole caste system from my brain.

PixelForg 3y ago

I wasn't even aware of my caste (ST) until I joined intermediate(equivalent to 11-12 grade). I feel like I'm lucky that I didn't face any sort of caste discrimination. I guess it depends on which part of India you live in.