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The caste system in India is layered like onions. The author says he was born as OBC (Other Backward Classes), but that's not the lowest in the overall scheme.

by wtmt 3y ago

The caste system in India is layered like onions. The author says he was born as OBC (Other Backward Classes), but that's not the lowest in the overall scheme. SC (Scheduled Castes) are considered lower in the hierarchy. ST (Scheduled Tribes) are considered even lower (there are variations across states and regions, so please take this with a pinch of salt). While the atrocities and punishments by "upper" caste people on "lower" caste people continue, even OBCs oppress SCs and STs quite badly, sometimes along with other "upper" caste people and sometimes by themselves. [1] It's a sad fact that the oppressed themselves don't understand it well enough to avoid oppressing others. If they could get together and lift each other up, things could be very different (or at least not as bad as they have been and are). [1]: Searching for news on atrocities and punishments on "dalits" would yield many results from as recent as a few days to long ago in the past.

rollcat 3y ago
> While the atrocities and punishments by "upper" caste people on "lower" caste people continue, even OBCs oppress SCs and STs quite badly [...]. This is the step 1. in ensuring any oppressive system continues to be supported by a majority / critical mass of people, who are themselves subject to oppression: make sure there's someone even lower than you, on whom you can unleash your frustration.
- alephnerd 3y ago
  The issue is OBC (Other Backwards Castes) was invented as a populist measure in 1992. After Independence, Affirmative Action/Reservation was created so Dalits and Nomadic Tribes who were traditionally outcastes in South Asian society could be integrated into society. Yet, in the 1980s-90s, Agrarian and Feudal Caste politicians like Mulayam Singh Yadav (Yadav), Lalu Prasad Yadav (Yadav), Chaudhary Charan Singh (Jatt), Bal Thackarey (Maratha), YRS Reddy (Reddy), etc began pushing to expand Affirmative Action to include those castes that are traditionally Feudal Lords/Zamindars and oppressed Dalits and Nomads. When this expansion began in 1992, every single non-Dalit caste saw that if they could lobby hard enough, they could also be give guarunteed Affirmative Action for college admissions, government jobs, welfare, etc. This is why even some Brahmin majority castes like Paharis were given Affimative Action by being treated as an OBC or Scheduled Tribe.
  - WesolyKubeczek 3y ago
    So it’s like playing a fake victim card?
    - rhaway84773 3y ago
      And yet 1 out of 180 CS professors are OBCs despite the population being over 40%. It’s probably closer to the welfare queen trope. Yeah, there are a few people who cheat the system, like any other system in the world. Thaw existence of cheaters does not negate the very real problems and challenges faced by the actual “victims”.
      - varunpant 3y ago
        [flagged]
        Philpax 3y ago
        Yes, and?
        OkayPhysicist 3y ago
        Dude really said the quiet part out loud. Caste discrimination is just another kind of bigotry, like sexism and racism.
        UncleMeat 3y ago
        1/180 is very very very different than 4/10. That's not just some statistical anomaly.
        lozenge 3y ago
        There's nothing biologically different about these people. The only difference is how they're treated by society.
        michaelchisari 3y ago
        I'm not one who believes that perfect representational parity is possible or even desirable within all social groupings. That said, I see no reason to ignore the implication of a 1% vs 40% disparity within a highly advantageous profession.
- munificent 3y ago
  Lyndon B. Johnson: "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."
- naniid 3y ago
  Reminds me of ragging in Indian colleges. There is no particular generation thinks that they should put a full stop to this. Their insane justification is “we bore it, now it’s our turn to do it”. Society is just f*^ed up. Same with caste system.
zekrioca 3y ago
"When education is not liberating, the dream of the oppressed is to become the oppressor."
rustedspoon 3y ago
To make it further complex, the OBCs are further categorized into A,B,C,D.. groups. You need to add this info in multiple government forms right from childhood before writing any exam to what category and sub category you belong. And to make it even more complex I’m classified as Upper caste in the state I was born, OBC in 2 other neighboring states. Many from the caste I was born in migrate to other states so they can get reservations (affirmative action) benefits for their kids. To make it even further further complex, there is a sub caste with in the caste I was born in that are treated as SCs because of political reasons (may be?), so many cross marriage on purpose, again to get benefits for their kids. This is one of the main reason that is holding back India as a country. No one I know in my generation (born in 90s) practice or discriminate anyone, but the government regularly does and reminds you of it
mathewsanders 3y ago
> the oppressed themselves don't understand it well enough to avoid oppressing others I can’t comment too much because i’ve had a copy sitting unread in my pile of books to read for over 6 months now, but if anyone is interested, I think this is the exact topic of Paulo Freire’s ‘ Pedagogy of the Oppressed’ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedagogy_of_the_Oppressed https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedagogy_of_the_Oppressed
lazyninja987 3y ago
[dead]
orochimaaru 3y ago
Isn’t Narendra Modi, the Indian prime minister from an OBC? I don’t think he makes a secret of it
Xelynega 3y ago
Why is this relevant other than as an attempt to misdirect blame from the "caste system" to "the writer of the article"? I read the article as a critique of India's caste system evidenced by the lack of representation for a class that represents almost half the population. What does the actions of individuals in this group(that makes up half the population of India) have to do with that point?
- rramadass 3y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37333418 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37333418
rramadass 3y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37333418 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37333418

by wtmt 3y ago

rollcat 3y ago

> While the atrocities and punishments by "upper" caste people on "lower" caste people continue, even OBCs oppress SCs and STs quite badly [...]. This is the step 1. in ensuring any oppressive system continues to be supported by a majority / critical mass of people, who are themselves subject to oppression: make sure there's someone even lower than you, on whom you can unleash your frustration.

alephnerd 3y ago
The issue is OBC (Other Backwards Castes) was invented as a populist measure in 1992. After Independence, Affirmative Action/Reservation was created so Dalits and Nomadic Tribes who were traditionally outcastes in South Asian society could be integrated into society. Yet, in the 1980s-90s, Agrarian and Feudal Caste politicians like Mulayam Singh Yadav (Yadav), Lalu Prasad Yadav (Yadav), Chaudhary Charan Singh (Jatt), Bal Thackarey (Maratha), YRS Reddy (Reddy), etc began pushing to expand Affirmative Action to include those castes that are traditionally Feudal Lords/Zamindars and oppressed Dalits and Nomads. When this expansion began in 1992, every single non-Dalit caste saw that if they could lobby hard enough, they could also be give guarunteed Affirmative Action for college admissions, government jobs, welfare, etc. This is why even some Brahmin majority castes like Paharis were given Affimative Action by being treated as an OBC or Scheduled Tribe.
- WesolyKubeczek 3y ago
  So it’s like playing a fake victim card?
  - rhaway84773 3y ago
    And yet 1 out of 180 CS professors are OBCs despite the population being over 40%. It’s probably closer to the welfare queen trope. Yeah, there are a few people who cheat the system, like any other system in the world. Thaw existence of cheaters does not negate the very real problems and challenges faced by the actual “victims”.
    - varunpant 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - Philpax 3y ago
        Yes, and?
        OkayPhysicist 3y ago
        Dude really said the quiet part out loud. Caste discrimination is just another kind of bigotry, like sexism and racism.
      - UncleMeat 3y ago
        1/180 is very very very different than 4/10. That's not just some statistical anomaly.
      - lozenge 3y ago
        There's nothing biologically different about these people. The only difference is how they're treated by society.
      - michaelchisari 3y ago
        I'm not one who believes that perfect representational parity is possible or even desirable within all social groupings. That said, I see no reason to ignore the implication of a 1% vs 40% disparity within a highly advantageous profession.
munificent 3y ago
Lyndon B. Johnson: "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."
naniid 3y ago
Reminds me of ragging in Indian colleges. There is no particular generation thinks that they should put a full stop to this. Their insane justification is “we bore it, now it’s our turn to do it”. Society is just f*^ed up. Same with caste system.

zekrioca 3y ago

"When education is not liberating, the dream of the oppressed is to become the oppressor."

rustedspoon 3y ago

To make it further complex, the OBCs are further categorized into A,B,C,D.. groups. You need to add this info in multiple government forms right from childhood before writing any exam to what category and sub category you belong. And to make it even more complex I’m classified as Upper caste in the state I was born, OBC in 2 other neighboring states. Many from the caste I was born in migrate to other states so they can get reservations (affirmative action) benefits for their kids. To make it even further further complex, there is a sub caste with in the caste I was born in that are treated as SCs because of political reasons (may be?), so many cross marriage on purpose, again to get benefits for their kids. This is one of the main reason that is holding back India as a country. No one I know in my generation (born in 90s) practice or discriminate anyone, but the government regularly does and reminds you of it

mathewsanders 3y ago

> the oppressed themselves don't understand it well enough to avoid oppressing others I can’t comment too much because i’ve had a copy sitting unread in my pile of books to read for over 6 months now, but if anyone is interested, I think this is the exact topic of Paulo Freire’s ‘ Pedagogy of the Oppressed’ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedagogy_of_the_Oppressed https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedagogy_of_the_Oppressed

lazyninja987 3y ago

[dead]

orochimaaru 3y ago

Isn’t Narendra Modi, the Indian prime minister from an OBC? I don’t think he makes a secret of it

Xelynega 3y ago

Why is this relevant other than as an attempt to misdirect blame from the "caste system" to "the writer of the article"? I read the article as a critique of India's caste system evidenced by the lack of representation for a class that represents almost half the population. What does the actions of individuals in this group(that makes up half the population of India) have to do with that point?

rramadass 3y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37333418 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37333418

rramadass 3y ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37333418 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37333418