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And ah yes that global bastion of unfettered capitalism: China. All your "in the US" examples aren't capitalism, they're barely even free markets (and several

by pc86 3y ago

And ah yes that global bastion of unfettered capitalism: China. All your "in the US" examples aren't capitalism, they're barely even free markets (and several aren't at all). High regulations, high barriers to entry, massive government subsidies for established players and massive government regulation preventing new players from entering the market. Capitalism has its downsides for sure, but pointing out education and health care is not the brilliant argument you think it is.

markus_zhang 3y ago
You can't just point the flavors you don't like and say Ah that's not Capitalism.
- Enginerrrd 3y ago
  But regulatory capture isn't capitalism. The tendency to produce monopolies and pseudomonopolies IS, but that is a very well known market failure, that was once addressed quite well in democratic societies while maintaining (classically) liberal economic policies. The problem we have now isn't capitalism... It's plutocracy.
- pc86 3y ago
  I didn't think I was. There are plenty of markets in the US that are pretty capitalist[ic?]. But education, health care, those examples are all so far from that.
jmyeet 3y ago
> And ah yes that global bastion of unfettered capitalism: China. Yes, China is a capitalist country. Putting "Communist" between "China" and "Party" (ie CCP) doesn't make it communist anymore than D standing for "Democratic" makes the DPRK (North Korea) a bastion of Democracy (or, for that matter, the German Democratic Republic aka GDR aka East Germany). China has private companies, private property and an effective if not actual ban on labor organization (ie unions). It is in every way a capitalist country. > All your "in the US" examples aren't capitalism, they're barely even free markets "Free markets" are both a myth and orthogonal to capitalism. You mention both "free markets" and "too much regulation". That's neoliberalism (and, for the record, right wing). Markets only function when there's a strong government to enforce them. Deregulation is merely a way to transfer wealth to the already wealthy, placing the costs for that on the government and the populace at large (eg any number of chemical spills, disasters, poisononing of water sources and so on).

by pc86 3y ago

markus_zhang 3y ago

You can't just point the flavors you don't like and say Ah that's not Capitalism.

Enginerrrd 3y ago
But regulatory capture isn't capitalism. The tendency to produce monopolies and pseudomonopolies IS, but that is a very well known market failure, that was once addressed quite well in democratic societies while maintaining (classically) liberal economic policies. The problem we have now isn't capitalism... It's plutocracy.
pc86 3y ago
I didn't think I was. There are plenty of markets in the US that are pretty capitalist[ic?]. But education, health care, those examples are all so far from that.

jmyeet 3y ago

> And ah yes that global bastion of unfettered capitalism: China. Yes, China is a capitalist country. Putting "Communist" between "China" and "Party" (ie CCP) doesn't make it communist anymore than D standing for "Democratic" makes the DPRK (North Korea) a bastion of Democracy (or, for that matter, the German Democratic Republic aka GDR aka East Germany). China has private companies, private property and an effective if not actual ban on labor organization (ie unions). It is in every way a capitalist country. > All your "in the US" examples aren't capitalism, they're barely even free markets "Free markets" are both a myth and orthogonal to capitalism. You mention both "free markets" and "too much regulation". That's neoliberalism (and, for the record, right wing). Markets only function when there's a strong government to enforce them. Deregulation is merely a way to transfer wealth to the already wealthy, placing the costs for that on the government and the populace at large (eg any number of chemical spills, disasters, poisononing of water sources and so on).