4 ms·

> wagons disappeared to be replaced by SUVs because of... EPA emissions standards I think that's only half-true. In the US, people weren't buying many wagons w

by Zak 3y ago

> wagons disappeared to be replaced by SUVs because of... EPA emissions standards I think that's only half-true. In the US, people weren't buying many wagons when they were available. For the majority of people who don't use their SUVs off road, this seems irrational. I've heard a number of people say that the higher seating position makes them feel safer, though that feeling is not reality-based.

delecti 3y ago
I think it's a tragedy of the commons situation. Driving an SUV feels safer because there are more other vehicles you can see over to keep appraised of your surroundings, but that also makes it harder for the drivers of those other vehicles.
redundantly 3y ago
> I've heard a number of people say that the higher seating position makes them feel safer, though that feeling is not reality-based. It is based in reality, albeit a kind of self fulfilling prophecy. As more and more taller cars (large SUVs and pickup trucks) appear on the road the more dangerous it is for smaller cars. The crumple zones on a compact or sedan don't do much good when the front and rear bumpers of SUVs and trucks clear the hoods of smaller cars, effectively putting the bumper at eye level.
- Zak 3y ago
  > * the front and rear bumpers of SUVs and trucks clear the hoods of smaller cars, effectively putting the bumper at eye level* I expected that to be illegal, but it seems that it is not in the US. A quick look suggests that for typical unmodified SUVs the issue affects repair costs more than occupant injuries. Homebuilt monster trucks are, of course another issue.
jandrewrogers 3y ago
SUVs aren't made for off-road [0], the functional ones are made for poor road conditions. Subaru has targeted that market segment quite successfully with light, low-cost cars with AWD and high ground clearance. In some parts of the US, especially the western half, an AWD with high ground clearance is often a practical requirement due to the geography and weather risks even if you never go off-road. [0] The original "sport-utility vehicles" were built for off-road usage and had 4WD but that hasn't been true of almost anything marketed as an SUV for decades.
- Arrath 3y ago
  > In some parts of the US, especially the western half, an AWD with high ground clearance is often a practical requirement due to the geography and weather risks even if you never go off-road. This is exactly why Subarus are massively popular in Alaska.
ricardobayes 3y ago
Not sure about that. For a long time, the go-to "dad car" was a wagon, with wooden siding.
parasense 3y ago
> For the majority of people who don't use their SUVs off road, this seems irrational. Because that's a kind of regulatory fiction, right there. So let's cut the crap! For the majority of the so-called SUV market the "s" in SUV is a long lost myth, and if we're being honest then it's just Utility-Vehicle (UV). But you say they sit higher off the road, perhaps that's technically correct, but actually false when compared to off-road vehicles. But we've already acknowledged SUV's are not really off road vehicles, but rather normal passenger vehicles with normal road tires, normal suspensions, and lower center's of gravity. The Model-y is really just a slightly taller/longer version of the model-3. But how much higher, well if you look at the ground clearance, then it's only ~1 inches higher off the ground. But overall the vehicle is taller, will a larger overhead canopy, and the seats are places over booster blocks to raise the eye-level higher. It's really an illusion, the Model-y is really just a sedan, that technically meets the minimum requirements to say it's an SUV. You can safely consider the modern SUV as the equivalence of old-school station-wagons. If it waddles like a duck... quacks like a duck... you might be dealling with ducks my dude.

by Zak 3y ago

delecti 3y ago

I think it's a tragedy of the commons situation. Driving an SUV feels safer because there are more other vehicles you can see over to keep appraised of your surroundings, but that also makes it harder for the drivers of those other vehicles.

redundantly 3y ago

> I've heard a number of people say that the higher seating position makes them feel safer, though that feeling is not reality-based. It is based in reality, albeit a kind of self fulfilling prophecy. As more and more taller cars (large SUVs and pickup trucks) appear on the road the more dangerous it is for smaller cars. The crumple zones on a compact or sedan don't do much good when the front and rear bumpers of SUVs and trucks clear the hoods of smaller cars, effectively putting the bumper at eye level.

Zak 3y ago
> * the front and rear bumpers of SUVs and trucks clear the hoods of smaller cars, effectively putting the bumper at eye level* I expected that to be illegal, but it seems that it is not in the US. A quick look suggests that for typical unmodified SUVs the issue affects repair costs more than occupant injuries. Homebuilt monster trucks are, of course another issue.

jandrewrogers 3y ago

SUVs aren't made for off-road [0], the functional ones are made for poor road conditions. Subaru has targeted that market segment quite successfully with light, low-cost cars with AWD and high ground clearance. In some parts of the US, especially the western half, an AWD with high ground clearance is often a practical requirement due to the geography and weather risks even if you never go off-road. [0] The original "sport-utility vehicles" were built for off-road usage and had 4WD but that hasn't been true of almost anything marketed as an SUV for decades.

Arrath 3y ago
> In some parts of the US, especially the western half, an AWD with high ground clearance is often a practical requirement due to the geography and weather risks even if you never go off-road. This is exactly why Subarus are massively popular in Alaska.

ricardobayes 3y ago

Not sure about that. For a long time, the go-to "dad car" was a wagon, with wooden siding.

parasense 3y ago

> For the majority of people who don't use their SUVs off road, this seems irrational. Because that's a kind of regulatory fiction, right there. So let's cut the crap! For the majority of the so-called SUV market the "s" in SUV is a long lost myth, and if we're being honest then it's just Utility-Vehicle (UV). But you say they sit higher off the road, perhaps that's technically correct, but actually false when compared to off-road vehicles. But we've already acknowledged SUV's are not really off road vehicles, but rather normal passenger vehicles with normal road tires, normal suspensions, and lower center's of gravity. The Model-y is really just a slightly taller/longer version of the model-3. But how much higher, well if you look at the ground clearance, then it's only ~1 inches higher off the ground. But overall the vehicle is taller, will a larger overhead canopy, and the seats are places over booster blocks to raise the eye-level higher. It's really an illusion, the Model-y is really just a sedan, that technically meets the minimum requirements to say it's an SUV. You can safely consider the modern SUV as the equivalence of old-school station-wagons. If it waddles like a duck... quacks like a duck... you might be dealling with ducks my dude.