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Ironically, as a car enthusiast, I'd love to see something like this. I hate our current timeline where everyone drives a shitty crossover, manufacturers have

Ironically, as a car enthusiast, I'd love to see something like this. I hate our current timeline where everyone drives a shitty crossover, manufacturers have stopped making cars altogether in favor of shitty crossovers and trucks, and it's more dangerous to drive my fun small sports cars, which ironically produce less emissions despite being performance-oriented vehicles. It is not efficient to drive a massive brick on wheels. It is also dangerous to other road users, and it subtlety leads to the psychology which increases road rage, on top of all of that it increases road wear and tire wear both of which lead to other forms of pollution (including microplastics). Things are better in road environments where most drivers are in smaller vehicles. I love toodling around in a sports car in Europe. It's deeply painful in the US, especially in locales where the typical vehicle is a lifted truck that has a bumper height higher than the top of my head when in my car. There's way too many vehicles on American roadways that are literally /all/ negative from a societal perspective, and nearly all bad from a personal perspective, that people bought due to perverse incentives impacting manufacturing and pricing.

IX-103 3y ago
And the laws are such that you can't even import the nice small cars they have in Europe. My options for a small electric car in the US are the Chevy Volt (retiring at the end of this year) and the Nissan leaf (retiring at the end of next year?). I guess there's also the mini Cooper, but it's electric version only comes in a 2 door model that is impractical if you have children.
- tristor 3y ago
  And none of those small EVs are all-wheel drive, which I consider a basic requirement for any new car because I live in Colorado. Sure, I /can/ (and already do) drive a car without AWD, but if I'm buying a new car it's a hard requirement. There's no real technical reason why AWD can't be put into these smaller vehicles, it's a market-segmentation choice where anyone that wants AWD is forced to a crossover.
  - hansvm 3y ago
    AWD only helps with acceleration (and acceleration if you need to get out of a ditch). It slightly hampers most driver's ability to control the car around a slick curve. It's a nice perk, but why is it a hard requirement for you?
  - giantg2 3y ago
    Did Subaru and Hyundai get rid of their AWD cars? I thought the impresario, legacy, and elantras had AWD models recently. The Taurus did too, but that was a few years ago (not sure if they even make it now). Edit: sorry, I missed the small and EV part.
    - tristor 3y ago
      Subaru doesn't offer an EV. Hyundai doesn't offer an EV version of any of its AWD vehicles, other than crossovers. There are /many/ options for AWD vehicles without it being a crossover, but none of them are EVs. The only intersection point, with the exception of Tesla, where you get both is on crossovers.
      - giantg2 3y ago
        I missed the small EV part. "There are /many/ options for AWD vehicles without it being a crossover, but none of them are EVs." There are optional for AWD EVs that are sedans (not sub compact though, but also not crossovers). Stuff like Benz EQE, EQS, etc. Audi makes some too.
    - _sigma 3y ago
      Inded Subaru is still AWD in all the ICE product line. However, Subaru only has the SUV EV ported over from Toyota (it reviews poorly). It's sole hybrid is in the Crosstrek which essentially only exists on paper. Subaru is losing the EV/hybrid/PHEV game. It's very sad to see (as a huge Subaru fan).
      - giantg2 3y ago
        Their problem is their main partner is Toyota, and Toyota basically has the stance that they want to do hybrid to maximize the benefits of a constrained lithium supply (ie better to have more hybrids on the road than a smaller number of EVs). Subaru is too small to create EVs on their own at an economically competitive scale. Until Toyota has EVs in large numbers or Subaru finds a new partner, Subaru will not have access.
- yomlica8 3y ago
  But those cars are so unsafe so we can't have them here. Now get on your motorcycle and lane split through traffic to work.
  - bwanab 3y ago
    So, why are those cars unsafe? As far as I can tell, it's only because other people drive monster cars which is the whole point of this thread. If most people were in smaller cars, then smaller cars wouldn't be unsafe.
    - hedora 3y ago
      The low mass of the frame means the restraint system puts more force on you during a collision. Motorcycles don’t have that problem. Neither did cars back before seatbelts; a bit of shattered pre-safety glass old school windshield never hurt anyone.
  - Red_Leaves_Flyy 3y ago
    Lane splitting through stopped traffic is safer for everyone
- rahkiin 3y ago
  In europe we regard the cars you mention as quite large already.
  - outside1234 3y ago
    I don't know - when I was in Europe this summer there were noticeable larger cars.
    - rahkiin 3y ago
      As we consider them even larger. There are many smaller than Leaf, like E-corsa, and even more non-electric cars
  - tristor 3y ago
    Nobody in Europe thinks any of my sports cars are large. I've driven them in Europe and they are roughly similar in size to most European cars. Some of them are even from European companies.
    - ricardobayes 3y ago
      I really hate manufactures try to shove "small" cars down our European throats. Yes lots of people live in cities with medieval road architecture, but most of those people don't drive in the first place. I'd wager around 70% of Europeans live in the surrounds of a big city and countryside so bigger cars would definitely sell. They started selling the Raptor here and it sells pretty good. Not sure who came up with the idea that European car needs = small econobox. In fact there is a new chinese make that only sell SUVs and they are the #1 most sold here in Spain.
      - tristor 3y ago
        My daily vehicle is one of the only "city car" options ever sold in the US, it was originally made for the European market, and I love it. Most of my sports cars are only larger in length than the typical Euro econobox, but aren't considered particularly large. I see plenty of VW, Skoda, BMW, Mercedes, Renault, etc hatchbacks and sedans in Europe and have driven a few myself. I don't think "city car" has to be the only option in Europe, and I don't really see any evidence that there's an attempt to make it so. In some parts of Europe the fastest selling car is the Tesla Model 3. None of these are large vehicles by European standards, and definitely not by US standards.
- robbyking 3y ago
  That's been my frustration as well. I live in city and only drive on weekends, so I'd absolutely love a little 4 door AWD electric hatchback, but the US car market pushes people like me into hybrid crossovers like RAV4 and the CRV.
- gnopgnip 3y ago
  The Chevy Bolt is smaller than the volt, and it is no longer discontinued.
- karaterobot 3y ago
  Pedantic point: In many cases I believe you can import them, it's just expensive and annoying to jump through the hoops. Manufacturers could even sell them, they'd just have to pay a fine/fee/whatever. As a fan of light compact trucks, the kind they don't sell here in the U.S. anymore, my understanding is that a badly-written function in the CAFE standard calculations is one of the primary reasons I can't buy a truck that's smaller than my bedroom. The function calculates acceptable mileage based on vehicle footprint, and was nominally intended to encourage better fuel efficiency, but had the perverse effect of making trucks larger. Even then, it's legal to sell smaller trucks, but manufacturers have to pay a fine that apparently ruins the profit margin for them. And then there's the infamous chicken tax, and so on.
  - rolldat777 3y ago
    It's not just inconvenient, it's inconvenient enough to almost say you can't do it. I believe there is a firm lockout period of 2 years (so no 'new' cars can be imported). And then if it is not already licensed with various agencies you have to do that yourself, per-car, at a cost of (I heard) $7-15k. Not to mention the shipping, customs, etc.
- dashundchen 3y ago
  Take a look at: Hyundai Kona EV Kia Niro EV These two have been around for a few years and are on the second gen. You can get a low mileage first gen for under $25k, which means you may get an additional $4k federal tax credit. One issue to watch out for is the cover for the gear reduction unit should be replaced with a magnetic one and cleaned periodically, to avoid motor damage. Volvo EX30 - out next year, going to be under $35k There's also the generation of used compliance EVs like the VW eGolf and Hyundai Ioniq hatch. All are sold as SUVs but they're really compact hatchbacks with some SUV like styling.
- abawany 3y ago
  if you meant the Chevy Bolt EV/EUV (the Volt hybrid has been axed for a while), GM has committed to bringing it back on a new platform.
robbyking 3y ago
What's interesting to me is that in my experience most car enthusiasts feel the same way. Even though I don't have a lot of interest in car culture, I'm a big fan of the Smoking Tire Podcast, and the host -- who has his own Porches, Lamborghinis, etc. -- has said multiple times that he thinks most people who drive trucks would be better off in a station wagon, and most people who drive SUVs would be better off in a sedan (edit: he actually said minivan, not sedan). (His daily driver around LA is a scooter.) Obviously there are exceptions, but it makes sense to commute in a commuter car.
- iamthepieman 3y ago
  I agree and I think I'm in the minority of people who are better off in a large SUV. We have 7 in our family so need a minivan at the least. I don't think they make station wagons with 7 seats anymore. We live in a climate with long winters so we need at least one AWD/4WD vehicle so at least some of us can get out. And we tow a trailer so need the capacity. Having one vehicle that does it all is more cost-effective for us. At this moment though, we have a 12 passenger commuter van that is horrible in the snow and can barely pull the trailer, and a compact hatchback as our all-weather vehicle. That means we can't all go somewhere in inclement weather so we're in the market for the aformentioned SUV.
  - tristor 3y ago
    Sounds like you are actually an exception that proves the rule. Unfortunately the average buyer of a crossover/SUV has at most 4 passengers in the vehicle, and most vehicle-miles driven are single-occupant. Both uses which are better served by other vehicle types that have less negative externalities. I don't think SUVs should cease to exist, but we should stop subsidizing them with broken CAFE rules that incentivize manufacturers to make SUVs/trucks/crossovers to the exception of cars, and price them accordingly. Most Americans don't have 7 people in their family, so the most common vehicle on the road shouldn't be designed to accommodate an exceptional circumstance at many other costs to society.
- mywittyname 3y ago
  Guy with Lambo telling normies what they need. Sounds like yet another out-of-touch rich __ telling people how they should live their lives while living large himself. I recently replaced my aging Prius with a Rav4, and the versatility improvement is so dramatic. We went from renting/borrowing trucks and vans about every month to not needing one yet. The extra few inches in every direction multiplies together to be rather significant. Plus, it has a roof rack. I'll hang onto my sports cars, but my daily driver is forever going to be a crossover. This thing beats every hatchback, liftback, sedan, and wagon I've ever owned in every utility metric.
mywittyname 3y ago
People often complain about crossovers being heavy. But I have a Rav4 and it's curb weight is 3615lbs. The curb weight on my Mustang is 3618 and my Supra is 3345. So, somehow, the largest, newest vehicle in my fleet weighs the same as my 10 year old sub-compact 2+2 and barely more than a two-seater that's a foot shorter in length and like 2 feet shorter in height. And a modern Mustang is like 500-900lbs heavier than mine. Crossovers aren't the cause of fat cars. Mustang isn't unusual in the fact that it's a heavy coupe, there are lots of examples of coupes that are somehow much heavier than crossovers. For example, a new Forester is 3528lbs but a C8 Corvette is 3647.
- prmoustache 3y ago
  The mustang is an SUV. Look at th size of its wheels.
  - pixelatedindex 3y ago
    Size of the wheels don’t make an SUV. In fact, wheel sizes have been constantly increasing, no matter the car. My Mazda3 has far bigger tires than the Camry from 15 years prior. It’s also detrimental to fuel economy.
    - prmoustache 3y ago
      > Size of the wheels don’t make an SUV I was half joking because there is no clear definition of what it is. The name do not translate, most SUV aren't sporty nor utilitary. At least they are vehicles. Wheel size? you said it, all are growing bigger and bigger yeat after year regardless of category. off-road capability? nope ground clearance? nope, a tesla model Y or that new Kia sit closer to the ground than many non SUV. hatchback shape? nope, there are now SUV coupe, concertibles, and some will rank pickup trucks in the SUV category. how high are the driver/passenger seated? nope again, some vans are higher. I think what now caracterize a SUV isn't even a combination of these variables but more a tag from the brands marketing team and a general perception based on the car looking vaguely more boxy and bulbeous than other models of the same brand.
ricardobayes 3y ago
What every country should do, but none of them do, is tax based on the emissions. More polluting = more tax.
- navane 3y ago
  My pet peeve is limit speed by vehicle weight, equal impact for all drivers. Want to drive fast? You're welcome to crash into me with your 500kgs. Want to drive a 3000kg vehicle? Limit to 70kmh, even on the highway.
kozzz 3y ago
I am not an entusiast, the only thing I care about is my kids safety, hence a large SUV. When you will somehow remove drunks and low-IQ maniacs from roads, you can come and ask me to buy a smaller vehicle. Until then, please say for yourself and don’t attack my rights to safer roads
- bdavbdav 3y ago
  Your “right to safer roads” is unwittingly causing unsafer roads.
- carlob 3y ago
  And then when all the drunks and low-IQ maniacs finally buy a new car and it's as big as yours you can easily upgrade to a tank.
- dotancohen 3y ago
  Prisoner's dilemma, got it. Thanks.
  - tristor 3y ago
    It's only an iterated prisoner's dilemma because of vehicle height and difficulty in seeing farther down the road due to all the large vehicles. But in every other aspect, the data shows nearly the opposite that this person is stating. If they actually cared about safety they'd buy a sedan.
- ska 3y ago
  Large SUV's are actively make the roads less safe overall though. It's a tough collective action problem. It probably makes sense to at least remove the implicit subsidies of them though (they should never have been allowed separate emissions treatment aimed at commercial vehicles), if not something like the article suggests.
- tristor 3y ago
  > I am not an entusiast, the only thing I care about is my kids safety, hence a large SUV. When you will somehow remove drunks and low-IQ maniacs from roads, you can come and ask me to buy a smaller vehicle. Until then, please say for yourself and don’t attack my rights to safer roads I feel like this has to be Poe's Law in action. Larger vehicles are actually not safer, either for the occupants or for others on the road, counter-intuitively they are less safe. So, in actuality you've just outed yourself as a selfish a-hole who chooses the most anti-social option possible without actually looking at any of the data to make an informed decision. If you actually cared about your family the about the safest vehicle you can buy is a sedan, and you'd invest the money saved in keeping good quality tires on the car, keeping up with maintenance, and taking a performance driving class. The existence of your unnecessary behemoth lumbering down the road is an attack on my right to a safer road, as well my right to live on an Earth that doesn't require me to live in a hermetically sealed bubble with filtered water and air to get away from the excessive pollution caused by your behemoth (not the least of which is the microplastics it spews everywhere).

IX-103 3y ago

And the laws are such that you can't even import the nice small cars they have in Europe. My options for a small electric car in the US are the Chevy Volt (retiring at the end of this year) and the Nissan leaf (retiring at the end of next year?). I guess there's also the mini Cooper, but it's electric version only comes in a 2 door model that is impractical if you have children.

tristor 3y ago
And none of those small EVs are all-wheel drive, which I consider a basic requirement for any new car because I live in Colorado. Sure, I /can/ (and already do) drive a car without AWD, but if I'm buying a new car it's a hard requirement. There's no real technical reason why AWD can't be put into these smaller vehicles, it's a market-segmentation choice where anyone that wants AWD is forced to a crossover.
- hansvm 3y ago
  AWD only helps with acceleration (and acceleration if you need to get out of a ditch). It slightly hampers most driver's ability to control the car around a slick curve. It's a nice perk, but why is it a hard requirement for you?
- giantg2 3y ago
  Did Subaru and Hyundai get rid of their AWD cars? I thought the impresario, legacy, and elantras had AWD models recently. The Taurus did too, but that was a few years ago (not sure if they even make it now). Edit: sorry, I missed the small and EV part.
  - tristor 3y ago
    Subaru doesn't offer an EV. Hyundai doesn't offer an EV version of any of its AWD vehicles, other than crossovers. There are /many/ options for AWD vehicles without it being a crossover, but none of them are EVs. The only intersection point, with the exception of Tesla, where you get both is on crossovers.
    - giantg2 3y ago
      I missed the small EV part. "There are /many/ options for AWD vehicles without it being a crossover, but none of them are EVs." There are optional for AWD EVs that are sedans (not sub compact though, but also not crossovers). Stuff like Benz EQE, EQS, etc. Audi makes some too.
  - _sigma 3y ago
    Inded Subaru is still AWD in all the ICE product line. However, Subaru only has the SUV EV ported over from Toyota (it reviews poorly). It's sole hybrid is in the Crosstrek which essentially only exists on paper. Subaru is losing the EV/hybrid/PHEV game. It's very sad to see (as a huge Subaru fan).
    - giantg2 3y ago
      Their problem is their main partner is Toyota, and Toyota basically has the stance that they want to do hybrid to maximize the benefits of a constrained lithium supply (ie better to have more hybrids on the road than a smaller number of EVs). Subaru is too small to create EVs on their own at an economically competitive scale. Until Toyota has EVs in large numbers or Subaru finds a new partner, Subaru will not have access.
yomlica8 3y ago
But those cars are so unsafe so we can't have them here. Now get on your motorcycle and lane split through traffic to work.
- bwanab 3y ago
  So, why are those cars unsafe? As far as I can tell, it's only because other people drive monster cars which is the whole point of this thread. If most people were in smaller cars, then smaller cars wouldn't be unsafe.
  - hedora 3y ago
    The low mass of the frame means the restraint system puts more force on you during a collision. Motorcycles don’t have that problem. Neither did cars back before seatbelts; a bit of shattered pre-safety glass old school windshield never hurt anyone.
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 3y ago
  Lane splitting through stopped traffic is safer for everyone
rahkiin 3y ago
In europe we regard the cars you mention as quite large already.
- outside1234 3y ago
  I don't know - when I was in Europe this summer there were noticeable larger cars.
  - rahkiin 3y ago
    As we consider them even larger. There are many smaller than Leaf, like E-corsa, and even more non-electric cars
- tristor 3y ago
  Nobody in Europe thinks any of my sports cars are large. I've driven them in Europe and they are roughly similar in size to most European cars. Some of them are even from European companies.
  - ricardobayes 3y ago
    I really hate manufactures try to shove "small" cars down our European throats. Yes lots of people live in cities with medieval road architecture, but most of those people don't drive in the first place. I'd wager around 70% of Europeans live in the surrounds of a big city and countryside so bigger cars would definitely sell. They started selling the Raptor here and it sells pretty good. Not sure who came up with the idea that European car needs = small econobox. In fact there is a new chinese make that only sell SUVs and they are the #1 most sold here in Spain.
    - tristor 3y ago
      My daily vehicle is one of the only "city car" options ever sold in the US, it was originally made for the European market, and I love it. Most of my sports cars are only larger in length than the typical Euro econobox, but aren't considered particularly large. I see plenty of VW, Skoda, BMW, Mercedes, Renault, etc hatchbacks and sedans in Europe and have driven a few myself. I don't think "city car" has to be the only option in Europe, and I don't really see any evidence that there's an attempt to make it so. In some parts of Europe the fastest selling car is the Tesla Model 3. None of these are large vehicles by European standards, and definitely not by US standards.
robbyking 3y ago
That's been my frustration as well. I live in city and only drive on weekends, so I'd absolutely love a little 4 door AWD electric hatchback, but the US car market pushes people like me into hybrid crossovers like RAV4 and the CRV.
gnopgnip 3y ago
The Chevy Bolt is smaller than the volt, and it is no longer discontinued.
karaterobot 3y ago
Pedantic point: In many cases I believe you can import them, it's just expensive and annoying to jump through the hoops. Manufacturers could even sell them, they'd just have to pay a fine/fee/whatever. As a fan of light compact trucks, the kind they don't sell here in the U.S. anymore, my understanding is that a badly-written function in the CAFE standard calculations is one of the primary reasons I can't buy a truck that's smaller than my bedroom. The function calculates acceptable mileage based on vehicle footprint, and was nominally intended to encourage better fuel efficiency, but had the perverse effect of making trucks larger. Even then, it's legal to sell smaller trucks, but manufacturers have to pay a fine that apparently ruins the profit margin for them. And then there's the infamous chicken tax, and so on.
- rolldat777 3y ago
  It's not just inconvenient, it's inconvenient enough to almost say you can't do it. I believe there is a firm lockout period of 2 years (so no 'new' cars can be imported). And then if it is not already licensed with various agencies you have to do that yourself, per-car, at a cost of (I heard) $7-15k. Not to mention the shipping, customs, etc.
dashundchen 3y ago
Take a look at: Hyundai Kona EV Kia Niro EV These two have been around for a few years and are on the second gen. You can get a low mileage first gen for under $25k, which means you may get an additional $4k federal tax credit. One issue to watch out for is the cover for the gear reduction unit should be replaced with a magnetic one and cleaned periodically, to avoid motor damage. Volvo EX30 - out next year, going to be under $35k There's also the generation of used compliance EVs like the VW eGolf and Hyundai Ioniq hatch. All are sold as SUVs but they're really compact hatchbacks with some SUV like styling.
abawany 3y ago
if you meant the Chevy Bolt EV/EUV (the Volt hybrid has been axed for a while), GM has committed to bringing it back on a new platform.

robbyking 3y ago

What's interesting to me is that in my experience most car enthusiasts feel the same way. Even though I don't have a lot of interest in car culture, I'm a big fan of the Smoking Tire Podcast, and the host -- who has his own Porches, Lamborghinis, etc. -- has said multiple times that he thinks most people who drive trucks would be better off in a station wagon, and most people who drive SUVs would be better off in a sedan (edit: he actually said minivan, not sedan). (His daily driver around LA is a scooter.) Obviously there are exceptions, but it makes sense to commute in a commuter car.

iamthepieman 3y ago
I agree and I think I'm in the minority of people who are better off in a large SUV. We have 7 in our family so need a minivan at the least. I don't think they make station wagons with 7 seats anymore. We live in a climate with long winters so we need at least one AWD/4WD vehicle so at least some of us can get out. And we tow a trailer so need the capacity. Having one vehicle that does it all is more cost-effective for us. At this moment though, we have a 12 passenger commuter van that is horrible in the snow and can barely pull the trailer, and a compact hatchback as our all-weather vehicle. That means we can't all go somewhere in inclement weather so we're in the market for the aformentioned SUV.
- tristor 3y ago
  Sounds like you are actually an exception that proves the rule. Unfortunately the average buyer of a crossover/SUV has at most 4 passengers in the vehicle, and most vehicle-miles driven are single-occupant. Both uses which are better served by other vehicle types that have less negative externalities. I don't think SUVs should cease to exist, but we should stop subsidizing them with broken CAFE rules that incentivize manufacturers to make SUVs/trucks/crossovers to the exception of cars, and price them accordingly. Most Americans don't have 7 people in their family, so the most common vehicle on the road shouldn't be designed to accommodate an exceptional circumstance at many other costs to society.
mywittyname 3y ago
Guy with Lambo telling normies what they need. Sounds like yet another out-of-touch rich __ telling people how they should live their lives while living large himself. I recently replaced my aging Prius with a Rav4, and the versatility improvement is so dramatic. We went from renting/borrowing trucks and vans about every month to not needing one yet. The extra few inches in every direction multiplies together to be rather significant. Plus, it has a roof rack. I'll hang onto my sports cars, but my daily driver is forever going to be a crossover. This thing beats every hatchback, liftback, sedan, and wagon I've ever owned in every utility metric.

mywittyname 3y ago

People often complain about crossovers being heavy. But I have a Rav4 and it's curb weight is 3615lbs. The curb weight on my Mustang is 3618 and my Supra is 3345. So, somehow, the largest, newest vehicle in my fleet weighs the same as my 10 year old sub-compact 2+2 and barely more than a two-seater that's a foot shorter in length and like 2 feet shorter in height. And a modern Mustang is like 500-900lbs heavier than mine. Crossovers aren't the cause of fat cars. Mustang isn't unusual in the fact that it's a heavy coupe, there are lots of examples of coupes that are somehow much heavier than crossovers. For example, a new Forester is 3528lbs but a C8 Corvette is 3647.

prmoustache 3y ago
The mustang is an SUV. Look at th size of its wheels.
- pixelatedindex 3y ago
  Size of the wheels don’t make an SUV. In fact, wheel sizes have been constantly increasing, no matter the car. My Mazda3 has far bigger tires than the Camry from 15 years prior. It’s also detrimental to fuel economy.
  - prmoustache 3y ago
    > Size of the wheels don’t make an SUV I was half joking because there is no clear definition of what it is. The name do not translate, most SUV aren't sporty nor utilitary. At least they are vehicles. Wheel size? you said it, all are growing bigger and bigger yeat after year regardless of category. off-road capability? nope ground clearance? nope, a tesla model Y or that new Kia sit closer to the ground than many non SUV. hatchback shape? nope, there are now SUV coupe, concertibles, and some will rank pickup trucks in the SUV category. how high are the driver/passenger seated? nope again, some vans are higher. I think what now caracterize a SUV isn't even a combination of these variables but more a tag from the brands marketing team and a general perception based on the car looking vaguely more boxy and bulbeous than other models of the same brand.

ricardobayes 3y ago

What every country should do, but none of them do, is tax based on the emissions. More polluting = more tax.

navane 3y ago
My pet peeve is limit speed by vehicle weight, equal impact for all drivers. Want to drive fast? You're welcome to crash into me with your 500kgs. Want to drive a 3000kg vehicle? Limit to 70kmh, even on the highway.

kozzz 3y ago

I am not an entusiast, the only thing I care about is my kids safety, hence a large SUV. When you will somehow remove drunks and low-IQ maniacs from roads, you can come and ask me to buy a smaller vehicle. Until then, please say for yourself and don’t attack my rights to safer roads

bdavbdav 3y ago
Your “right to safer roads” is unwittingly causing unsafer roads.
carlob 3y ago
And then when all the drunks and low-IQ maniacs finally buy a new car and it's as big as yours you can easily upgrade to a tank.
dotancohen 3y ago
Prisoner's dilemma, got it. Thanks.
- tristor 3y ago
  It's only an iterated prisoner's dilemma because of vehicle height and difficulty in seeing farther down the road due to all the large vehicles. But in every other aspect, the data shows nearly the opposite that this person is stating. If they actually cared about safety they'd buy a sedan.
ska 3y ago
Large SUV's are actively make the roads less safe overall though. It's a tough collective action problem. It probably makes sense to at least remove the implicit subsidies of them though (they should never have been allowed separate emissions treatment aimed at commercial vehicles), if not something like the article suggests.
tristor 3y ago
> I am not an entusiast, the only thing I care about is my kids safety, hence a large SUV. When you will somehow remove drunks and low-IQ maniacs from roads, you can come and ask me to buy a smaller vehicle. Until then, please say for yourself and don’t attack my rights to safer roads I feel like this has to be Poe's Law in action. Larger vehicles are actually not safer, either for the occupants or for others on the road, counter-intuitively they are less safe. So, in actuality you've just outed yourself as a selfish a-hole who chooses the most anti-social option possible without actually looking at any of the data to make an informed decision. If you actually cared about your family the about the safest vehicle you can buy is a sedan, and you'd invest the money saved in keeping good quality tires on the car, keeping up with maintenance, and taking a performance driving class. The existence of your unnecessary behemoth lumbering down the road is an attack on my right to a safer road, as well my right to live on an Earth that doesn't require me to live in a hermetically sealed bubble with filtered water and air to get away from the excessive pollution caused by your behemoth (not the least of which is the microplastics it spews everywhere).