4 ms·

But then we would actually transfer goods via rail instead of tiny amounts via trucks, and then what would happen to the cultural icon of the american trucker a

But then we would actually transfer goods via rail instead of tiny amounts via trucks, and then what would happen to the cultural icon of the american trucker and his incredibly loud, unsafe at all conditions vehicle.

SoftTalker 3y ago
In the USA we transfer a lot of freight by rail. Trucks are used when rail isn't practical or doesn't exist.
- ClumsyPilot 3y ago
  ut yoir rail is not electric, even thoigh its the first mode of transport we electrofied over 100 years ago
- ghaff 3y ago
  Yeah. There are already strong economic incentives to use rail for long-haul land transportation of lower value/less time-critical goods in the US. I don't know the numbers but I suspect you see relatively few goods transported coast to coast by truck in the US.
  - romafirst3 3y ago
    I’m pretty sure this isn’t true. Lots travels by rail, but a hell of a lot travels by truck. I ship a lot ltl (pallets) If you want to do a quick test yourself , next time you are on a highway look at the places the trucks are from (obviously they can be registered elsewhere but it gives you an idea). If you import to a port it usually travels by rail after (cause ports have great rail links) but if you are going business to business in the US it’s often by truck
- stetrain 3y ago
  Rail [Edit: in the US] generally prioritizes slow freight, and has moved more in that direction over time. Precision scheduled railroading favors fewer, longer, slower trains to increase the ratio of freight to crew and maintenance costs. It is very well optimized and efficient, but you're not going to order something with standard UPS or Fedex style shipping and see it delivered by rail. Whereas in days past the railroad covered a significant amount of mail and parcel shipping due to higher service speeds and frequencies. I do wonder if there could be room for better logistics and an expansion of rail to cover faster (ie < 2 weeks) shipping scenarios, but this would require investing in the rail and signaling infrastructure and opening and infrastructure to competing service providers.
  - ClumsyPilot 3y ago
    > It is very well optimized and efficient, but you're not going to order something with standard UPS or Fedex style shipping and see it delivered by rail My package from China has arrived by rail, it took about 3 whleeks, and Aliexpress tracking showed it going through kazahstan and Russia
    - stetrain 3y ago
      Yes, I should have specified in the US. In places with shared passenger and freight traffic (ie a lot of Europe and Asia), freight services can't hyper-optimize on very long, very slow, infrequent service. This does result in usually less tonnage transported by rail, but service that is more flexible to faster shipping.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    Expectations have changed too. FedEx was a pretty premium thing when it debuted. Now I'll order a new widget from Amazon because I'll get it as soon as I would have if I waited until I got around to driving to the Walmart 10 minutes away (and for the same price). For a lot of things, consumers are like "What do you mean I won't get it for 2+ weeks?" CANCEL.
    - stetrain 3y ago
      I think there is something to be said about how we take "free 2-day shipping" for granted these days. Transporting something across the country should cost money compared to buying something already local to you, or even better made or grown near you. I haven't done the math myself, but I suspect we are all subsidizing interstate trucking (and perhaps air freight) compared to its actual infrastructure and emissions costs. This does lower prices of many essential goods, but also tilts things in favor of large corporations who can ship things cheaply all over the country (ie Walmart, Amazon).
      - ghaff 3y ago
        Although subsidies at a country level are... complicated. In general, I suspect that if most of us went back in time 25-30 years we'd be pretty shocked about just how much friction there was to everything. It's not a linear or absolute improvement--and some of the downsides are significant. (Cities you often wouldn't have wanted to live in back then are really expensive today.) But you also spent a lot of time and effort doing things that are essentially effortless today.
- jgbmlg 3y ago
  Rail isn't practical for some routes because the highways are maintained by the government but the tracks are maintained by the rail carriers.
- stefan_ 3y ago
  If only that was true, but it's been regressing for 15 years: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+United+States+rail+freight+versus+gdp https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+United+States+rail...
scythe 3y ago
The major driver of inefficient shipping in the United States is the Jones Act. Rail is used whenever possible.
o11c 3y ago
The main problem with rail is that the last-mile infrastructure is really not suitable for single-car quantities. How would you detach a single railroad car from the center of a train and move it to the town's sideline?
- bluGill 3y ago
  I'd stage the train so the car was at the end not in the middle. Then you detach it via a new coupler that doesn't exist but could, and let the car coast to the swtich and move to the town. Pickup is more difficult though.
MisterTea 3y ago
Incredibly loud means illegally modified. Even the staccato sound of the engine brake (compression release aka jake brake) is very subdued in a properly muffled vehicle. This is how they come from factory as it is mandated. Plus the DPF+SCR cats added to the muffling ability and are sometimes all in one.

SoftTalker 3y ago

In the USA we transfer a lot of freight by rail. Trucks are used when rail isn't practical or doesn't exist.

ClumsyPilot 3y ago
ut yoir rail is not electric, even thoigh its the first mode of transport we electrofied over 100 years ago
ghaff 3y ago
Yeah. There are already strong economic incentives to use rail for long-haul land transportation of lower value/less time-critical goods in the US. I don't know the numbers but I suspect you see relatively few goods transported coast to coast by truck in the US.
- romafirst3 3y ago
  I’m pretty sure this isn’t true. Lots travels by rail, but a hell of a lot travels by truck. I ship a lot ltl (pallets) If you want to do a quick test yourself , next time you are on a highway look at the places the trucks are from (obviously they can be registered elsewhere but it gives you an idea). If you import to a port it usually travels by rail after (cause ports have great rail links) but if you are going business to business in the US it’s often by truck
stetrain 3y ago
Rail [Edit: in the US] generally prioritizes slow freight, and has moved more in that direction over time. Precision scheduled railroading favors fewer, longer, slower trains to increase the ratio of freight to crew and maintenance costs. It is very well optimized and efficient, but you're not going to order something with standard UPS or Fedex style shipping and see it delivered by rail. Whereas in days past the railroad covered a significant amount of mail and parcel shipping due to higher service speeds and frequencies. I do wonder if there could be room for better logistics and an expansion of rail to cover faster (ie < 2 weeks) shipping scenarios, but this would require investing in the rail and signaling infrastructure and opening and infrastructure to competing service providers.
- ClumsyPilot 3y ago
  > It is very well optimized and efficient, but you're not going to order something with standard UPS or Fedex style shipping and see it delivered by rail My package from China has arrived by rail, it took about 3 whleeks, and Aliexpress tracking showed it going through kazahstan and Russia
  - stetrain 3y ago
    Yes, I should have specified in the US. In places with shared passenger and freight traffic (ie a lot of Europe and Asia), freight services can't hyper-optimize on very long, very slow, infrequent service. This does result in usually less tonnage transported by rail, but service that is more flexible to faster shipping.
- ghaff 3y ago
  Expectations have changed too. FedEx was a pretty premium thing when it debuted. Now I'll order a new widget from Amazon because I'll get it as soon as I would have if I waited until I got around to driving to the Walmart 10 minutes away (and for the same price). For a lot of things, consumers are like "What do you mean I won't get it for 2+ weeks?" CANCEL.
  - stetrain 3y ago
    I think there is something to be said about how we take "free 2-day shipping" for granted these days. Transporting something across the country should cost money compared to buying something already local to you, or even better made or grown near you. I haven't done the math myself, but I suspect we are all subsidizing interstate trucking (and perhaps air freight) compared to its actual infrastructure and emissions costs. This does lower prices of many essential goods, but also tilts things in favor of large corporations who can ship things cheaply all over the country (ie Walmart, Amazon).
    - ghaff 3y ago
      Although subsidies at a country level are... complicated. In general, I suspect that if most of us went back in time 25-30 years we'd be pretty shocked about just how much friction there was to everything. It's not a linear or absolute improvement--and some of the downsides are significant. (Cities you often wouldn't have wanted to live in back then are really expensive today.) But you also spent a lot of time and effort doing things that are essentially effortless today.
jgbmlg 3y ago
Rail isn't practical for some routes because the highways are maintained by the government but the tracks are maintained by the rail carriers.
stefan_ 3y ago
If only that was true, but it's been regressing for 15 years: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+United+States+rail+freight+versus+gdp https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=plot+United+States+rail...

scythe 3y ago

The major driver of inefficient shipping in the United States is the Jones Act. Rail is used whenever possible.

o11c 3y ago

The main problem with rail is that the last-mile infrastructure is really not suitable for single-car quantities. How would you detach a single railroad car from the center of a train and move it to the town's sideline?

bluGill 3y ago
I'd stage the train so the car was at the end not in the middle. Then you detach it via a new coupler that doesn't exist but could, and let the car coast to the swtich and move to the town. Pickup is more difficult though.

MisterTea 3y ago

Incredibly loud means illegally modified. Even the staccato sound of the engine brake (compression release aka jake brake) is very subdued in a properly muffled vehicle. This is how they come from factory as it is mandated. Plus the DPF+SCR cats added to the muffling ability and are sometimes all in one.