6 ms·

Already baked into the price of gas... its actually one of the better use-taxes but not all states have success keeping it.

thfuran 3y ago
Sure, in the sense that O(n) is the same as O(n^4)
- omgJustTest 3y ago
  IDK what this means... and even if you explained the comment or directed it as part of a conversation, you would find that use-taxes are incredibly effective methods of placing the cost with usage of a shared resource. I would also argue that if you want to make a comparison that you just find the, I am sure, studies that have been conducted by every department of transportation in the country to estimate the fair cost-of-use to vehicle type. The comment here should either find some references or be removed as snark-bait. "Sure, in the sense that O(n) is the same as O(n^4)"...
  - thfuran 3y ago
    >use-taxes are incredibly effective methods of placing the cost with usage of a shared resource. But road wear simply is not proportional to gas use. If you double a vehicle's weight, its gas usage will almost certainly less than double (this depends somewhat on driving patterns, but air resistance is generally a significant factor in mileage), while the road wear it causes will increase by roughly a factor of 8. A flat tax on gas can't possibly internalize the costs of road wear, though it could internalize the costs of CO2 emissions, which are actually proportional to use.
candiddevmike 3y ago
EVs weigh more on average than ICs and don't use gas...
- cinntaile 3y ago
  They use electricity though, which you usually also pay tax on so it's quite similar in that regard. The more you use the more tax you pay.
tfehring 3y ago
Heavier vehicles still significantly underpay if road maintenance is funded by gas taxes alone, since wear and tear increases in proportion to the fourth power of weight [0] while gas usage only increases linearly or so. Of course, higher taxes on the heaviest vehicles would just mean higher prices on consumer goods, so this mostly ends up as a subsidy to consumption. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law
- SoftTalker 3y ago
  Heavier vehicles use more fuel. A semi truck gets single-digit MPG.
  - thfuran 3y ago
    And they can have an axle weight of 20,000 pounds vs about 3,000 for an SUV, meaning they do nearly 2,000 times as much damage to the road. Unless your car gets about 10,000 mpg, the gas tax isn't cutting it.
    - SoftTalker 3y ago
      Big trucks also pay a lot of other road taxes that passenger cars don't. All those stickers and tags that they all have to display, all come with a fee. I'm not claiming that they pay a "fair share" proportionate to the wear on the roads but they already do pay a lot more than other vehicles.
      - thfuran 3y ago
        They may pay enough extra taxes and fees to cover the road wear, but the gas tax absolutely doesn't cover it.

thfuran 3y ago

Sure, in the sense that O(n) is the same as O(n^4)

omgJustTest 3y ago
IDK what this means... and even if you explained the comment or directed it as part of a conversation, you would find that use-taxes are incredibly effective methods of placing the cost with usage of a shared resource. I would also argue that if you want to make a comparison that you just find the, I am sure, studies that have been conducted by every department of transportation in the country to estimate the fair cost-of-use to vehicle type. The comment here should either find some references or be removed as snark-bait. "Sure, in the sense that O(n) is the same as O(n^4)"...
- thfuran 3y ago
  >use-taxes are incredibly effective methods of placing the cost with usage of a shared resource. But road wear simply is not proportional to gas use. If you double a vehicle's weight, its gas usage will almost certainly less than double (this depends somewhat on driving patterns, but air resistance is generally a significant factor in mileage), while the road wear it causes will increase by roughly a factor of 8. A flat tax on gas can't possibly internalize the costs of road wear, though it could internalize the costs of CO2 emissions, which are actually proportional to use.

candiddevmike 3y ago

EVs weigh more on average than ICs and don't use gas...

cinntaile 3y ago
They use electricity though, which you usually also pay tax on so it's quite similar in that regard. The more you use the more tax you pay.

tfehring 3y ago

Heavier vehicles still significantly underpay if road maintenance is funded by gas taxes alone, since wear and tear increases in proportion to the fourth power of weight [0] while gas usage only increases linearly or so. Of course, higher taxes on the heaviest vehicles would just mean higher prices on consumer goods, so this mostly ends up as a subsidy to consumption. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law

SoftTalker 3y ago
Heavier vehicles use more fuel. A semi truck gets single-digit MPG.
- thfuran 3y ago
  And they can have an axle weight of 20,000 pounds vs about 3,000 for an SUV, meaning they do nearly 2,000 times as much damage to the road. Unless your car gets about 10,000 mpg, the gas tax isn't cutting it.
  - SoftTalker 3y ago
    Big trucks also pay a lot of other road taxes that passenger cars don't. All those stickers and tags that they all have to display, all come with a fee. I'm not claiming that they pay a "fair share" proportionate to the wear on the roads but they already do pay a lot more than other vehicles.
    - thfuran 3y ago
      They may pay enough extra taxes and fees to cover the road wear, but the gas tax absolutely doesn't cover it.