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So was protesting in Ukraine during Euromaidan. Maybe Russians can learn a thing or two from Ukrainians.

thriftwy 3y ago
Learn how to overthrow your government, lose several regions to a larger neighbour's invasion, become significantly poorer, and then get dragged to die on the front in a hot war against it? But at least they don't have that president they didn't like, who was an obstacle for them joining the EU. Learning things from Euromaidan is arguably why Russia is still in coherent state under so much pressure. Russians are very aware of the abyss that may open in place of an even previously super peaceful country when a revolution happens. Got three shots of that vaccine.
- helge9210 3y ago
  Somehow the assumption is that without Euromaidan, Ukraine would still be intact and not in a war. "Not in a war" part is correct. The government was preparing to give Ukraine to Russia as a whole. Ukrainian paratroopers has an exercise in Summer 2013 to subdue an insurgency in Western Ukraine. If Russians are afraid to get to jail or get shot, they can always commit self-immolation in protest. (There was a case actually last year, but not against the war. Only against conscription.)
- cycrutchfield 3y ago
  Nobody suggested that it was a smooth or easy path to remove yourself as a vassal state of Moscow. But in the long run, the process will likely be worth it. Russia is still in a coherent state because they’re just sending all their rural poor, ethnic minorities, and prisoners to die in Ukraine. Once they’ve sacrificed all their undesirables and need to conscript from their major cities, we will see how “non-political” Russians actually are.
  - ipaddr 3y ago
    Who do you think Ukraine is sending? Rural poor. The rich males have fled. Ukraine software developers are working abroad not shooting weapons. The US and Canada do the same. Trying to draw a line is difficult when both groups are on the same side. The rich decide on wars and the poor fight them.
    - cycrutchfield 3y ago
      Ah OK. "Both sides same". You should have started your post with "But what about"
      - ipaddr 3y ago
        In the end they are two sides of the same coin. If you think there are good guys and bad guys and the good guys are always on my side then I will remind you that this isn't a movie. For every action any actor took there is a reason and justification that can be made. Would Trudeau and Freeland be so pro war if Freeland and her sister owned 5 apartment buildings in Russia instead of the Ukraine? Would Biden be so pro war if his sin had dealings with Russia instead of the Ukraine? Find me a pure moral action and I'll raise you two selfish actions.
        cycrutchfield 3y ago
        Two sides of the same coin. One side is an imperialist aggressor seeking revanchism. The other side is defending their lands trying to get out from under the boot of Russian subjugation. But sure, same coin.
        ipaddr 3y ago
        Two sides. One does not exist without the other. Russia vs NATO. NATO fired first shots trying to extend their reach and Russia is firing back. Ukraine is the coin. You thought it was a movie? Good vs Evil
        3y ago

Learn how to overthrow your government, lose several regions to a larger neighbour's invasion, become significantly poorer, and then get dragged to die on the front in a hot war against it? But at least they don't have that president they didn't like, who was an obstacle for them joining the EU. Learning things from Euromaidan is arguably why Russia is still in coherent state under so much pressure. Russians are very aware of the abyss that may open in place of an even previously super peaceful country when a revolution happens. Got three shots of that vaccine.

helge9210 3y ago
Somehow the assumption is that without Euromaidan, Ukraine would still be intact and not in a war. "Not in a war" part is correct. The government was preparing to give Ukraine to Russia as a whole. Ukrainian paratroopers has an exercise in Summer 2013 to subdue an insurgency in Western Ukraine. If Russians are afraid to get to jail or get shot, they can always commit self-immolation in protest. (There was a case actually last year, but not against the war. Only against conscription.)
cycrutchfield 3y ago
Nobody suggested that it was a smooth or easy path to remove yourself as a vassal state of Moscow. But in the long run, the process will likely be worth it. Russia is still in a coherent state because they’re just sending all their rural poor, ethnic minorities, and prisoners to die in Ukraine. Once they’ve sacrificed all their undesirables and need to conscript from their major cities, we will see how “non-political” Russians actually are.
- ipaddr 3y ago
  Who do you think Ukraine is sending? Rural poor. The rich males have fled. Ukraine software developers are working abroad not shooting weapons. The US and Canada do the same. Trying to draw a line is difficult when both groups are on the same side. The rich decide on wars and the poor fight them.
  - cycrutchfield 3y ago
    Ah OK. "Both sides same". You should have started your post with "But what about"
    - ipaddr 3y ago
      In the end they are two sides of the same coin. If you think there are good guys and bad guys and the good guys are always on my side then I will remind you that this isn't a movie. For every action any actor took there is a reason and justification that can be made. Would Trudeau and Freeland be so pro war if Freeland and her sister owned 5 apartment buildings in Russia instead of the Ukraine? Would Biden be so pro war if his sin had dealings with Russia instead of the Ukraine? Find me a pure moral action and I'll raise you two selfish actions.
      - cycrutchfield 3y ago
        Two sides of the same coin. One side is an imperialist aggressor seeking revanchism. The other side is defending their lands trying to get out from under the boot of Russian subjugation. But sure, same coin.
        ipaddr 3y ago
        Two sides. One does not exist without the other. Russia vs NATO. NATO fired first shots trying to extend their reach and Russia is firing back. Ukraine is the coin. You thought it was a movie? Good vs Evil
        3y ago