6 ms·
What a cool situation we’re in where two companies own most of our payments and apparently raise fees at the same time.
by 26fingies 3y ago
What a cool situation we’re in where two companies own most of our payments and apparently raise fees at the same time.
- toomuchtodo 3y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36801491 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36801491 (FedNow is live)
- happymellon 3y agoNot in the US, so I may have misunderstood, but isn't FedNow for bank transfers rather than purchases?
- toomuchtodo 3y agoNo, it is also intended for purchases in the future. Shakedown is deposit to deposit accounts, alias support is coming soon (phone & email identifiers). Walmart specifically submitted public comments on the topic in support of FedNow due to its payments capabilities. You don't need your bank to support it, using a financial services provider like ACI Global or Jack Henry & Associates is sufficient. Last call at the interchange trough. https://www.paymentsdive.com/news/walmart-kroger-eye-instant-payments-fednow/649055/ https://www.paymentsdive.com/news/walmart-kroger-eye-instant... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37168917 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37168917
- TedDoesntTalk 3y agoYes. I don’t believe FedNow is designed to transfer $5.32 to the local coffee shop.
- kranke155 3y agoThat’s what’s happened in Brazil with the PIX system. Same thing in Portugal with MBway. Starts as bank transfers then becomes the de facto way to transfer money.
- PaulDavisThe1st 3y agoWhy not?
- TedDoesntTalk 3y agoIt's replacing ACH which is not available to "consumers", only employers. Maybe I'm wrong.
- PaulDavisThe1st 3y agoI use the ACH all the time. I can't do it directly, but that's just an artifact that isn't of much significance to me, given that various financial services company give me access to use it as I need to. The same thing will presumably happen for FedNow.
- TedDoesntTalk 3y agoWhich bank gives ACH access to non-business accounts?
- PaulDavisThe1st 3y agoIt's ACH access without being ACH. I can trivially transfer cash to my kid's accounts at other banks, and to/from my 3rd party savings accounts, all via ACH. Likewise, PayPal and Wise (formerly Transferwise) provide it in the opposite direction: I can pull via ACH directly from my bank account.
- mishagale 3y agoThat looks like a US version of Faster Payments* (UK) or SWIFT (Eurozone) that enables instant wire transfers between bank accounts. I doubt very much it is suitable as an alternative to credit/debit cards for retail payments. For one thing, there's zero fraud protection, it's the electronic equivalent to paying for something with a cashier's check. For another, it's a pretty laborious process - you have to sign in to your online banking, enter the recipient's bank account details and the correct transaction reference, probably do some kind of 2FA. For a third thing, while in the UK banks generally don't charge anything for transfers, the Bank of England charges a few pennies (£0.07 last I heard) per transaction. If people were routinely making several of those payments every day the way they do with cards, I'm sure banks would start charging fees. * By the way, Faster Payments went live in the UK in 2008, but it still took a couple of years for all consumer banks to adopt it.
- justsomehnguy 3y ago> I doubt very much it is suitable as an alternative to credit/debit cards for retail payments. For one thing, there's zero fraud protection, it's the electronic equivalent to paying for something with a cashier's check. For another, it's a pretty laborious process - you have to sign in to your online banking, enter the recipient's bank account details and the correct transaction reference, probably do some kind of 2FA. It's already solved, just point your app to the QR code generated by the same terminal you use for CC.
- toomuchtodo 3y agoIndeed, this is how Venmo works today for business payments and Zelle in general. It is a trivial implementation.
- gambiting 3y agoIn Poland a lot of stores accept BLIK payments now which are instant online payments from your account. You open your banking app on your phone, it shows you the BLIK code, you give that to the merchant who types it on their terminal, then within couple seconds you get a popup on your phone saying "Merchant X is requesting payment of Y PLN, do you agree?" if you press yes then the payment is sent instantly to them, both sides get a confirmation. It's also fantastic for payments over the phone because you no longer have to give anyone your card number/expiration/cvv(how this is still acceptable practice in UK is literally beyond me), the code is single use only and you see who you're paying and how much.
- game_the0ry 3y agoWord. That cartel needs to be broken up. Along with airlines, finance, insurance, and a lot of other industries.
- robertlagrant 3y agoIndustries aren't cartels.
- atmartins 3y agoI think they were being poetic
- TheCoelacanth 3y agoThey are if they collude with each other instead of competing. Visa and Mastercard both raising fees at the same time is extremely suspect.
- datavirtue 3y agoAmex and Discover are next.
- jasode 3y ago>Visa and Mastercard both raising fees at the same time is extremely suspect. Competitors making similar price adjustments based on seeing each other's public statements and strategy is legal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacit_collusion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacit_collusion Same reason that competitors' gas stations across the street from each other have the same prices. They can simply see each others' prices posted on the street signs and match them. Likewise with Apple Music being $9.99 to match Spotify's $9.99. Now they've both increased to $10.99/month. Same "legalized tacit collusion" situation happens when one leading law firm announces salary increases and other law firms immediately match it: https://www.reuters.com/legal/legalindustry/large-law-firms-rush-match-cravaths-salary-hikes-associates-2022-03-01/ https://www.reuters.com/legal/legalindustry/large-law-firms-... No secret agreements in hidden emails or conspiracies required. Just match the visible pricing your competitors have. The loophole is competitors can't hide prices because consumers need to know what the prices are to pay them.
- capableweb 3y agoIndeed, and also that whoever wrote the article, didn't actually investigate the reason why they decided to raise the prices at the same time (besides "the fees help cover costs related to fraud prevention and innovation" but not saying why both of them need it at the same time), and questioning if there is collusion going on as that would actually be malicious use of their market position as a duopoly, and would make for a much more interesting article.
- datavirtue 3y agoDon't worry. Elizabeth is already glaring at them.
- dylan604 3y agoI always forget Mastercard and Visa are two separate companies, as when people talk about them, they are always said together like it's a hyphenated name Mastercard-Visa. Mastercard and Visa are always accepted either one is accepted. Discover and AmEx are totally different, and stores can accept one without the other. It's clear that Mastercard-Visa is by design meant to be the other's alibi for not being declared a Monopoly.
- codexb 3y agoCostco is Visa only
- baldgeek 3y agoCostco is a weird one. They accept both for payment , but can only refund back to Visa. Source : Me, As I have personally experienced this at Costco in California. Maybe it's just this specific store/region
- trillic 3y agoMy Illinois Costco for sure doesn't take a Mastercard Credit card. They do take a Mastercard DEBIT card.
- goodbyesf 3y agoIt's pure laziness. One should have raised prices first and then a week or month later, the other should have followed. At least pretend you are competing with each other. Look at coke and pepsi. One has a sale this week. And then next week the other has a sale. They alternate. In a society that doesn't allow monopolies, I guess we are destined to get cooperating duopolies.
- ROTMetro 3y agoMake your concerns heard. https://reportfraud.ftc.gov/ https://reportfraud.ftc.gov/