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Unless it's internal/admin-only I can't see myself building on top of Google Maps APIs again. It's just too dang expensive. Maybe if some of the products I wrot

Unless it's internal/admin-only I can't see myself building on top of Google Maps APIs again. It's just too dang expensive. Maybe if some of the products I wrote were making money per-user (directly to me at least, I'm mainly B2B and so I could pass on the cost but the businesses don't care enough to pay it) I could justify it but just showing an interactive map of restaurant locations for a local food week ran up a couple hundred dollars. I spent a few hours and switched over to use ProtonMaps [0] and I've been very happy. I still use the Google API on the admin side to aid in looking up addresses but that usage is tiny compared to all the people viewing the data. That's all for a personal project but I've seen Google Maps costs spiral out of control at 2 different companies I've worked at. I pushed for OSM/etc at one company but was essentially told "Nobody ever got fired for buying Google Maps" (we were just drawing polygons on a map) and I think I might be successful at pushing for ProtonMaps (OSM under the covers) at my current. Google Maps lets you get your foot in the door "for free" but once you pass the free tier it's insane. [0] https://protomaps.com/ https://protomaps.com/

brookst 3y ago
Which is funny because it seems misaligned with Google’s business model. Shouldn’t they be the cheapest option, and generating revenue by ad placements in 3rd party apps? I suppose the ad value of static images in tiles is low, and there’s no way to ensure that developers honor JavaScript or other interactivity for ads?
- joshstrange 3y ago
  I mean when it comes to interactive maps you have to load their JS to display them. Unlike OSM you don't have (legit) access to the raw tiles. You would think that base maps would be a loss-leader for them but with it's current pricing that doesn't seem to be the case. Places API or Directions API are even more crazy in pricing that I never even consider using them. I'd love to give exact driving/walking distances but the cost to do so would be astronomical, instead I just use the haversine formula to give "as the crow flies" distances. I would love to see some of the more complicated Google Maps APIs unseated by 3rd party providers (Places/Distance, I guess Solar/Pollen/etc too but I care less about those).
  - dheera 3y ago
    > Unlike OSM you don't have (legit) access to the raw tiles Google does serve raw tiles, not free of course https://developers.google.com/maps/documentation/maps-static/overview?hl=zh-tw https://developers.google.com/maps/documentation/maps-static...
    - joshstrange 3y ago
      That’s not really “raw tiles” in the OSM or other 3rd party map provider sense. Especially since you can’t save/cache them really (and you can’t use them with something like leaflet legally)
      - dheera 3y ago
        Save them to the blockchain then, they can't do anything about it.
- icoder 3y ago
  I once was on a project that started out with OSM, but then realised there was nothing that compared to Google's Places API (might be different now) in terms of completeness and correctness. And your are not (or at least were not) allowed to use Places API on top of / in combination with OSM). That's what you get when your consumer directed products are 'free' and thus widely used and thus lot's of stake holders ensure their place is correctly in their database (probably in combination with other, possibly community based, efforts). We relied heavily on Places API and thus were bound to Google Maps API, we did just not see a reasonable way around that.
  - skkdhfke 3y ago
    > That's what you get when your consumer directed products are 'free' and thus widely used and thus lot's of stake holders ensure their place is correctly in their database (probably in combination with other, possibly community based, efforts) Would it be crazy yo have the government maintain such a database and make it available to anyone? It seems like the ideal place to join forces and avoid data duplication.
    - ap99 3y ago
      Think about your interactions with the government, e.g. getting a drivers license, passport, filing taxes, parking tickets, etc. Do you want those people managing something like maps or places on maps?
      - baloki 3y ago
        In the UK the government sort of does manage a map that’s used as the basis of a lot of others maps called Ordinance Survey Maps.
      - whoknowsidont 3y ago
        >Do you want those people managing something like maps or places on maps Yes. The USPS is actually pretty good at it too. They even have their own API you can use. >Think about your interactions with the government My public roads, building codes, food safety, food affordability, stable power grids, advanced medical care, space exploration. The government is plenty capable of doing good things, however people letting carefully crafted legislation, get passed or even created, that supports private interests is a societal illness, not a fundamental issue with government capabilities.
- martius 3y ago
  Google must diversify its source of revenue, that's the purpose of hardware, Cloud, Youtube premium and others. It is also why they sell access to APIs.
- ddalex 3y ago
  [flagged]
- dheera 3y ago
  > generating revenue by ad placements in 3rd party apps What worked for websites doesn't work for apps. Have you seen apps with ads built into them? They look horrendous. I usually uninstall them within 5 seconds of seeing them.
  - amadeuspagel 3y ago
    I think the OP is talking about ads in the sense of showing certain places more prominently, not banner ads.
- nazcan 3y ago
  It's hard to ensure, and if a developer wants to, they can show ads themselves.
earthboundkid 3y ago
One place I worked had been using a Google Map, but switched to Bing when the price went up. The Bing map had a banner on it saying they needed a license key, so they just hid the banner with CSS! I came in a few years later and replaced the whole thing with Leaflet+Carto, but it was pretty funny code archeology to see "Hmm, why is this crazy CSS class here. Oh…"
pirsquare 3y ago
It used to be cheap and affordable, then one day some Google executive decided to 10X the Map APIs pricing.
- Topgamer7 3y ago
  I mean this one I actually get. The price under the hood must be immeasurable. They run street cars, buy satellite data, have developers, qa, support. All for a product used by most for free. I mean the charging a price for it yes, but expecting everyone to be able to pay it is a fantasy.
  - notatoad 3y ago
    but they also run a first-party maps app. the price of the streetview cars, satellite data, development, and qa isn't all just for the API. i'm not really criticizing, they can charge whatever they want if they don't want people to use their maps api. and i suspect they don't really want people to use their maps API - the pricing seems targeted to milk the orgs who can't be bothered to implement a cheaper option.
Woozzy 3y ago
Have you heard about https://www.felt.com https://www.felt.com or https://umap.openstreetmap.fr https://umap.openstreetmap.fr ? Both run on OSM and are free
anonymouse008 3y ago
Does anyone else have a solution for the satellite layer? I was using MapLibre [0] then needed direct-on-the-ground images which made me convert to Google Maps. [0] https://maplibre.org/ https://maplibre.org/
- blamazon 3y ago
  For a potential USA-only solution, (I don't know if it will fit or be usable for your use case) the USDA provides aerial imagery under the "National Agricultural Imagery Program." [1] [1]: https://www.fsa.usda.gov/Assets/USDA-FSA-Public/usdafiles/APFO/status-maps/pdfs/NAIP_Coverage_2018.pdf https://www.fsa.usda.gov/Assets/USDA-FSA-Public/usdafiles/AP...
- lelandbatey 3y ago
  If you're willing to pay for it, a company I worked for switched from Google Maps to TomTom maps, and TomTom does offer aerial image maps. I don't remember the specifics of exactly how much cheaper TomTom was vs Google Maps, but I remember it being on the order of an 80% discount.
boo-ga-ga 3y ago
When I worked in a startup with location-based apps we also were hit by that Google Maps API price increase. However, my understanding is that they are still free for use on mobile, and maybe that's the place which Google really cares to be at any cost? As for the web, they already control all the data they want with their to analytics, ads, and Chrome browser.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

brookst 3y ago

Which is funny because it seems misaligned with Google’s business model. Shouldn’t they be the cheapest option, and generating revenue by ad placements in 3rd party apps? I suppose the ad value of static images in tiles is low, and there’s no way to ensure that developers honor JavaScript or other interactivity for ads?

joshstrange 3y ago
I mean when it comes to interactive maps you have to load their JS to display them. Unlike OSM you don't have (legit) access to the raw tiles. You would think that base maps would be a loss-leader for them but with it's current pricing that doesn't seem to be the case. Places API or Directions API are even more crazy in pricing that I never even consider using them. I'd love to give exact driving/walking distances but the cost to do so would be astronomical, instead I just use the haversine formula to give "as the crow flies" distances. I would love to see some of the more complicated Google Maps APIs unseated by 3rd party providers (Places/Distance, I guess Solar/Pollen/etc too but I care less about those).
- dheera 3y ago
  > Unlike OSM you don't have (legit) access to the raw tiles Google does serve raw tiles, not free of course https://developers.google.com/maps/documentation/maps-static/overview?hl=zh-tw https://developers.google.com/maps/documentation/maps-static...
  - joshstrange 3y ago
    That’s not really “raw tiles” in the OSM or other 3rd party map provider sense. Especially since you can’t save/cache them really (and you can’t use them with something like leaflet legally)
    - dheera 3y ago
      Save them to the blockchain then, they can't do anything about it.
icoder 3y ago
I once was on a project that started out with OSM, but then realised there was nothing that compared to Google's Places API (might be different now) in terms of completeness and correctness. And your are not (or at least were not) allowed to use Places API on top of / in combination with OSM). That's what you get when your consumer directed products are 'free' and thus widely used and thus lot's of stake holders ensure their place is correctly in their database (probably in combination with other, possibly community based, efforts). We relied heavily on Places API and thus were bound to Google Maps API, we did just not see a reasonable way around that.
- skkdhfke 3y ago
  > That's what you get when your consumer directed products are 'free' and thus widely used and thus lot's of stake holders ensure their place is correctly in their database (probably in combination with other, possibly community based, efforts) Would it be crazy yo have the government maintain such a database and make it available to anyone? It seems like the ideal place to join forces and avoid data duplication.
  - ap99 3y ago
    Think about your interactions with the government, e.g. getting a drivers license, passport, filing taxes, parking tickets, etc. Do you want those people managing something like maps or places on maps?
    - baloki 3y ago
      In the UK the government sort of does manage a map that’s used as the basis of a lot of others maps called Ordinance Survey Maps.
    - whoknowsidont 3y ago
      >Do you want those people managing something like maps or places on maps Yes. The USPS is actually pretty good at it too. They even have their own API you can use. >Think about your interactions with the government My public roads, building codes, food safety, food affordability, stable power grids, advanced medical care, space exploration. The government is plenty capable of doing good things, however people letting carefully crafted legislation, get passed or even created, that supports private interests is a societal illness, not a fundamental issue with government capabilities.
martius 3y ago
Google must diversify its source of revenue, that's the purpose of hardware, Cloud, Youtube premium and others. It is also why they sell access to APIs.
ddalex 3y ago
[flagged]
dheera 3y ago
> generating revenue by ad placements in 3rd party apps What worked for websites doesn't work for apps. Have you seen apps with ads built into them? They look horrendous. I usually uninstall them within 5 seconds of seeing them.
- amadeuspagel 3y ago
  I think the OP is talking about ads in the sense of showing certain places more prominently, not banner ads.
nazcan 3y ago
It's hard to ensure, and if a developer wants to, they can show ads themselves.

earthboundkid 3y ago

One place I worked had been using a Google Map, but switched to Bing when the price went up. The Bing map had a banner on it saying they needed a license key, so they just hid the banner with CSS! I came in a few years later and replaced the whole thing with Leaflet+Carto, but it was pretty funny code archeology to see "Hmm, why is this crazy CSS class here. Oh…"

pirsquare 3y ago

It used to be cheap and affordable, then one day some Google executive decided to 10X the Map APIs pricing.

Topgamer7 3y ago
I mean this one I actually get. The price under the hood must be immeasurable. They run street cars, buy satellite data, have developers, qa, support. All for a product used by most for free. I mean the charging a price for it yes, but expecting everyone to be able to pay it is a fantasy.
- notatoad 3y ago
  but they also run a first-party maps app. the price of the streetview cars, satellite data, development, and qa isn't all just for the API. i'm not really criticizing, they can charge whatever they want if they don't want people to use their maps api. and i suspect they don't really want people to use their maps API - the pricing seems targeted to milk the orgs who can't be bothered to implement a cheaper option.

Woozzy 3y ago

Have you heard about https://www.felt.com https://www.felt.com or https://umap.openstreetmap.fr https://umap.openstreetmap.fr ? Both run on OSM and are free

anonymouse008 3y ago

Does anyone else have a solution for the satellite layer? I was using MapLibre [0] then needed direct-on-the-ground images which made me convert to Google Maps. [0] https://maplibre.org/ https://maplibre.org/

blamazon 3y ago
For a potential USA-only solution, (I don't know if it will fit or be usable for your use case) the USDA provides aerial imagery under the "National Agricultural Imagery Program." [1] [1]: https://www.fsa.usda.gov/Assets/USDA-FSA-Public/usdafiles/APFO/status-maps/pdfs/NAIP_Coverage_2018.pdf https://www.fsa.usda.gov/Assets/USDA-FSA-Public/usdafiles/AP...
lelandbatey 3y ago
If you're willing to pay for it, a company I worked for switched from Google Maps to TomTom maps, and TomTom does offer aerial image maps. I don't remember the specifics of exactly how much cheaper TomTom was vs Google Maps, but I remember it being on the order of an 80% discount.

boo-ga-ga 3y ago

When I worked in a startup with location-based apps we also were hit by that Google Maps API price increase. However, my understanding is that they are still free for use on mobile, and maybe that's the place which Google really cares to be at any cost? As for the web, they already control all the data they want with their to analytics, ads, and Chrome browser.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]