5 ms·

"You might argue that this is Microsoft’s operating system, or that when using Microsoft’s browser and search engine it’s well within its rights to try and sway

"You might argue that this is Microsoft’s operating system, or that when using Microsoft’s browser and search engine it’s well within its rights to try and sway people away from Chrome." "Microsoft’s behaviors here are totally beyond a simple webpage prompt. I shouldn’t have to be dismissing pop-ups that appear on top of my apps and games, or ones that magically appear after I update my copy of Windows." Windows 11 is doing what it was programmed to do: https://youtu.be/Ag1AKIl_2GM?t=57 https://youtu.be/Ag1AKIl_2GM?t=57 Sadly, this kind of user-hostile behavior is increasingly common and a form of enshitification (https://www.wired.com/story/tiktok-platforms-cory-doctorow/ https://www.wired.com/story/tiktok-platforms-cory-doctorow/) of the operating system. What should Windows 11 users do to let Microsoft know that such behaviors are intrusive and offensive?

kotaKat 3y ago
> What should Windows 11 users do to let Microsoft know that such behaviors are intrusive and offensive? They'll tell you to use the Feedback Hub, but all of that feedback promptly gets discarded or drowned out in the SNR of overzealous "insiders" acting as free QA for Microsoft praising every horrible decision they make.
- thesuperbigfrog 3y ago
  Feedback Hub is a black hole: everything that goes in never sees the light again and has no purpose other than training machine learning models (a form of textual Hawking radiation?).
- throwaway290 3y ago
  Sadly, it's similar with Apple discussions. "X is not working as described on Ventura and was like that since update to Big Sur" "try restarting your Mac"
- jrm4 3y ago
  There is literally no point in such an effort that doesn't involve the threat of significant impact, i.e. legal/regulatory penalty. We've been in this world long enough, and we should be smarter about understanding that.
kevincox 3y ago
The only thing that a user can do is switch OS. Microsfts goal is to extract as much profit as possible. The main factors that oppose enshitification are users leaving (revenue is lost) or regulation (increases costs).
- treis 3y ago
  And I think this highlights the real problem. The issue isn't that MS is pulling some nonsense. It's that I can't really vote with my feet and stop using Windows.
  - jrm4 3y ago
    But wherever and whatever you're doing you CAN make steps toward doing that.
phero_cnstrcts 3y ago
Not use Windows?
prmoustache 3y ago
> What should Windows 11 users do to let Microsoft know that such behaviors are intrusive and offensive? Leave it for a proper OS. It might not be possible for your company issued computers if they don't allow you to use something else[1][2] but for your personnal uses it is fairly easy. [1] I doubt it would be configured to receive popup ads in that context anyway [2] Having a toxic work environment is a good reason to change job. I personnally count being forced to use Windows as a toxic env.
- tivert 3y ago
  > Leave it for a proper OS. > It might not be possible for your company issued computers if they don't allow you to use something else[1][2] but for your personnal [sic] uses it is fairly easy. It's not that easy, unless you're willing to make a bunch of sacrifices for the sake of using a different OS. Windows is by far the dominant desktop OS, and there's a lot of software people need and want to use that's available only for it.
  - CuriouslyC 3y ago
    It used to be that way, but now Linux has really good application compatibility. You can run the majority of apps using wine/proton, and ironically old hardware tends to be better supported in Linux.
    - tivert 3y ago
      > You can run the majority of apps using wine/proton I've heard that, but I'm skeptical. I'm assuming "most apps" don't include MS Office. How much wrestling is involved? Can you just run a Windows installer and have it work? Do updates break things?
      - CuriouslyC 3y ago
        Take a look at https://appdb.winehq.org/ https://appdb.winehq.org/ for compatibility. Older software (even stuff like MS Office) often works well.
digitalsin 3y ago
If a user can't switch to another OS, you can run Windows Server. I run that in my home lab when I have to use a Windows based OS for certain scenarios.
userbinator 3y ago
What should Windows 11 users do to let Microsoft know that such behaviors are intrusive and offensive? Downgrade to Windows 10. If enough users did this, they might realise that people still want to use Windows, but without the user-hostility, so will be more incentivised to change things back to how they were instead of just squeezing harder on what remains of their userbase.
- bitwize 3y ago
  Psh. Microsoft will just force-upgrade those computers back to Windows 11.
- pxc 3y ago
  > > What should Windows 11 users do to let Microsoft know that such behaviors are intrusive and offensive? > Downgrade to Windows 10. Windows 10 introduced things that would have been (and were) deemed unacceptable by people who care about things like this at the time, too. You could have said all this about Windows 8 or Windows 10 with a retreat to Windows 7 being the prescription. Many people did. The only message a move like this sends is that if Microsoft moves slowly enough, people will accept basically anything as 'the less user-hostile alternative'.
  - butlike 3y ago
    The frog doesn't jump out of the pot if you boil the water with him already in it.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

kotaKat 3y ago

> What should Windows 11 users do to let Microsoft know that such behaviors are intrusive and offensive? They'll tell you to use the Feedback Hub, but all of that feedback promptly gets discarded or drowned out in the SNR of overzealous "insiders" acting as free QA for Microsoft praising every horrible decision they make.

thesuperbigfrog 3y ago
Feedback Hub is a black hole: everything that goes in never sees the light again and has no purpose other than training machine learning models (a form of textual Hawking radiation?).
throwaway290 3y ago
Sadly, it's similar with Apple discussions. "X is not working as described on Ventura and was like that since update to Big Sur" "try restarting your Mac"
jrm4 3y ago
There is literally no point in such an effort that doesn't involve the threat of significant impact, i.e. legal/regulatory penalty. We've been in this world long enough, and we should be smarter about understanding that.

kevincox 3y ago

The only thing that a user can do is switch OS. Microsfts goal is to extract as much profit as possible. The main factors that oppose enshitification are users leaving (revenue is lost) or regulation (increases costs).

treis 3y ago
And I think this highlights the real problem. The issue isn't that MS is pulling some nonsense. It's that I can't really vote with my feet and stop using Windows.
- jrm4 3y ago
  But wherever and whatever you're doing you CAN make steps toward doing that.

phero_cnstrcts 3y ago

Not use Windows?

prmoustache 3y ago

> What should Windows 11 users do to let Microsoft know that such behaviors are intrusive and offensive? Leave it for a proper OS. It might not be possible for your company issued computers if they don't allow you to use something else[1][2] but for your personnal uses it is fairly easy. [1] I doubt it would be configured to receive popup ads in that context anyway [2] Having a toxic work environment is a good reason to change job. I personnally count being forced to use Windows as a toxic env.

tivert 3y ago
> Leave it for a proper OS. > It might not be possible for your company issued computers if they don't allow you to use something else[1][2] but for your personnal [sic] uses it is fairly easy. It's not that easy, unless you're willing to make a bunch of sacrifices for the sake of using a different OS. Windows is by far the dominant desktop OS, and there's a lot of software people need and want to use that's available only for it.
- CuriouslyC 3y ago
  It used to be that way, but now Linux has really good application compatibility. You can run the majority of apps using wine/proton, and ironically old hardware tends to be better supported in Linux.
  - tivert 3y ago
    > You can run the majority of apps using wine/proton I've heard that, but I'm skeptical. I'm assuming "most apps" don't include MS Office. How much wrestling is involved? Can you just run a Windows installer and have it work? Do updates break things?
    - CuriouslyC 3y ago
      Take a look at https://appdb.winehq.org/ https://appdb.winehq.org/ for compatibility. Older software (even stuff like MS Office) often works well.

digitalsin 3y ago

If a user can't switch to another OS, you can run Windows Server. I run that in my home lab when I have to use a Windows based OS for certain scenarios.

userbinator 3y ago

What should Windows 11 users do to let Microsoft know that such behaviors are intrusive and offensive? Downgrade to Windows 10. If enough users did this, they might realise that people still want to use Windows, but without the user-hostility, so will be more incentivised to change things back to how they were instead of just squeezing harder on what remains of their userbase.

bitwize 3y ago
Psh. Microsoft will just force-upgrade those computers back to Windows 11.
pxc 3y ago
> > What should Windows 11 users do to let Microsoft know that such behaviors are intrusive and offensive? > Downgrade to Windows 10. Windows 10 introduced things that would have been (and were) deemed unacceptable by people who care about things like this at the time, too. You could have said all this about Windows 8 or Windows 10 with a retreat to Windows 7 being the prescription. Many people did. The only message a move like this sends is that if Microsoft moves slowly enough, people will accept basically anything as 'the less user-hostile alternative'.
- butlike 3y ago
  The frog doesn't jump out of the pot if you boil the water with him already in it.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]