3 ms·

So rather than make them equal, you make other less equal? The argument is “we can right the wrongs of past racism, but being racist in reverse”. It’s amazing

by refurb 3y ago

So rather than make them equal, you make other less equal? The argument is “we can right the wrongs of past racism, but being racist in reverse”. It’s amazing how many people buy into that argument.

lostlogin 3y ago
> So rather than make them equal Unsurprisingly, we did try this for a decade or two. It was an extensive and expensive failure and is widely researched and written about [1]. A minor boost to Māori in a waiting list point scoring system for list prioritisation has caused a knee jerk dismissal of the scheme as we see here. Absent from the shouting has been a solution to Māori living shorter lives with worse health [2]. The new scheme also reduces the impact of race on list priorities, as noted at the end of this article [3]. Race is a couple of points out of 100, most being clinical. The point scoring system is a small part of the large changes underway in the system at the moment. The moves are primarily towards more autonomy for Māori within the healthcare system [4]. The background to this is a recognised failure in the system after a successful court action claiming Treaty of Waitangi obligations were not being met. They weren’t and aren’t [5]. With knowledge of the situation and what’s going on, ‘apartheid’ is a pretty radical take. To my knowledge even the dog whistle politicians in an election year haven’t called new the scheme apartheid. Update: yes, our dog whistle politics have gone there. [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0277953622006219 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S027795362... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/20/new-zealand-starts-giving-priority-to-maori-and-pacific-elective-surgery-patients https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/20/new-zealand-st... [3] https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018895520/surgery-scoop-sparks-rows-over-equality-and-equity https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2... [4] https://www.futureofhealth.govt.nz/maori-health-authority/ https://www.futureofhealth.govt.nz/maori-health-authority/ [5] https://waitangitribunal.govt.nz/news/report-on-stage-one-of-health-services-and-outcomes-released/ https://waitangitribunal.govt.nz/news/report-on-stage-one-of...
- refurb 3y ago
  That’s a really long winded way of saying “we tried some things and they didn’t work so we’re going to try racism next”
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
digging 3y ago
You need stronger arguments than misusing the term "racism". Consider two hungry kids at lunch. Consider the difference between stealing the fruit from one kid's plate, and giving extra fruit to the other kid. Both are special treatment. Think about what you can see that's different in these two situations that you would call the same thing.
- refurb 3y ago
  Actually, no. Treating people differently based on race, is by definition racism - discriminating against people on the basis of their race. And your analogy is a poor one for what is happening in NZ with regards to healthcare. Healthcare is a limited resource, and what NZ is doing is letting race be a factor when triaged patients in an environment of limited healthcare resources. You could literally be sicker than someone else, but if you're the wrong race, the other person get treatment first. So for your analogy, it's more like there are two kids. One hasn't eaten in 3 days, the other 2 days, but the one that hasn't eaten in 3 days is a member of an "oppressive race" (without having committed any oppression themselves mind you, just their ancestors), so the other one gets to eat first.
  - lostlogin 3y ago
    > You could literally be sicker than someone else, but if you're the wrong race, the other person get treatment first. You need to learn about it before you make claims like that. This isn’t the case, as the links provided describe and as I stated. Race already is a factor in healthcare - the system is biased against Māori and this is an attempt to even it up.
    - refurb 3y ago
      I've researched it already. Patients are triaged for medical care, it's always been that way - it's based on medical need, with the sickest treated first, and those who are less sick wait. The new system now prioritized people based on race. You could be sicker than someone else, but if you're the wrong race, you wait. This doesn't "even up" anything. It penalizes people for being the wrong race. You don't solve racism, by being racist. It's an absurd idea.

by refurb 3y ago

lostlogin 3y ago

> So rather than make them equal Unsurprisingly, we did try this for a decade or two. It was an extensive and expensive failure and is widely researched and written about [1]. A minor boost to Māori in a waiting list point scoring system for list prioritisation has caused a knee jerk dismissal of the scheme as we see here. Absent from the shouting has been a solution to Māori living shorter lives with worse health [2]. The new scheme also reduces the impact of race on list priorities, as noted at the end of this article [3]. Race is a couple of points out of 100, most being clinical. The point scoring system is a small part of the large changes underway in the system at the moment. The moves are primarily towards more autonomy for Māori within the healthcare system [4]. The background to this is a recognised failure in the system after a successful court action claiming Treaty of Waitangi obligations were not being met. They weren’t and aren’t [5]. With knowledge of the situation and what’s going on, ‘apartheid’ is a pretty radical take. To my knowledge even the dog whistle politicians in an election year haven’t called new the scheme apartheid. Update: yes, our dog whistle politics have gone there. [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0277953622006219 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S027795362... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/20/new-zealand-starts-giving-priority-to-maori-and-pacific-elective-surgery-patients https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/20/new-zealand-st... [3] https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018895520/surgery-scoop-sparks-rows-over-equality-and-equity https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2... [4] https://www.futureofhealth.govt.nz/maori-health-authority/ https://www.futureofhealth.govt.nz/maori-health-authority/ [5] https://waitangitribunal.govt.nz/news/report-on-stage-one-of-health-services-and-outcomes-released/ https://waitangitribunal.govt.nz/news/report-on-stage-one-of...

refurb 3y ago
That’s a really long winded way of saying “we tried some things and they didn’t work so we’re going to try racism next”
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

digging 3y ago

You need stronger arguments than misusing the term "racism". Consider two hungry kids at lunch. Consider the difference between stealing the fruit from one kid's plate, and giving extra fruit to the other kid. Both are special treatment. Think about what you can see that's different in these two situations that you would call the same thing.

refurb 3y ago
Actually, no. Treating people differently based on race, is by definition racism - discriminating against people on the basis of their race. And your analogy is a poor one for what is happening in NZ with regards to healthcare. Healthcare is a limited resource, and what NZ is doing is letting race be a factor when triaged patients in an environment of limited healthcare resources. You could literally be sicker than someone else, but if you're the wrong race, the other person get treatment first. So for your analogy, it's more like there are two kids. One hasn't eaten in 3 days, the other 2 days, but the one that hasn't eaten in 3 days is a member of an "oppressive race" (without having committed any oppression themselves mind you, just their ancestors), so the other one gets to eat first.
- lostlogin 3y ago
  > You could literally be sicker than someone else, but if you're the wrong race, the other person get treatment first. You need to learn about it before you make claims like that. This isn’t the case, as the links provided describe and as I stated. Race already is a factor in healthcare - the system is biased against Māori and this is an attempt to even it up.
  - refurb 3y ago
    I've researched it already. Patients are triaged for medical care, it's always been that way - it's based on medical need, with the sickest treated first, and those who are less sick wait. The new system now prioritized people based on race. You could be sicker than someone else, but if you're the wrong race, you wait. This doesn't "even up" anything. It penalizes people for being the wrong race. You don't solve racism, by being racist. It's an absurd idea.