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> Electronic-waste neutral: When you buy a Fairphone 5, we give a phone a new life or recycle the same amount of electronic waste. This means 100% compensation

> Electronic-waste neutral: When you buy a Fairphone 5, we give a phone a new life or recycle the same amount of electronic waste. This means 100% compensation for the weight of electronics we put into the market. Making you phone e-waste neutral. You will be more environmentally friendly if you just don't upgrade from whatever phone you have for a few years. This seems as much of an accounting trick as carbon offsets, which don't really do anything. They could buy a bunch of used smartphones from a reseller market that probably would have been sold anyway, but Fairphone then resells them on the used market. Somehow, this means "100% compensation" for your purchase because they are giving another phone a new life.

reedlaw 3y ago
I would gladly use my Pixel 4a (5G) another few years but its support ends in two months [1]. Even though I run GrapheneOS, the open source community is not capable of maintaining firmware, kernel and vendor code [2]. 1. https://endoflife.date/pixel https://endoflife.date/pixel 2. https://grapheneos.org/faq#legacy-devices https://grapheneos.org/faq#legacy-devices
- gameoverhumans 3y ago
  I agree it's a shame that Google didn't do a better job with the older Pixel devices. It's worth noting, however, that all of their newer flagships (based on a CPU design they have more control over) have guaranteed security updates for 5 years after release. FWIW I despise Google and do my absolute best to avoid compensating them, but I do think things like their guaranteed security updates are a step in the right direction, and hopefully we can only get further improvements from here.
  - aziaziazi 3y ago
    5 years is too short, it means we need to buy at very least 10 brand new phones from 15yo to 60yo (oldies also need security updated right ?). We need a pocket device that do clock, agenda, media player, camera, web browser and obviously phone. Apps are great but can be replaced with on/offline sites. We’re going in a direction that sacrifice users and resources sustainability in favor of the economy. I’m not against economy but it should be a tool to empower humanity, not the opposite.
    - gameoverhumans 3y ago
      Yes, I agree. In my perfect world, a company is legally required to support ALL products they have ever sold, for an unlimited period of time. There would still be warranty periods. But the company would be required to indefinitely continue selling replacement parts, provide repair services (or support third party repair services with manuals, schematics, etc), issue security updates for critical vulnerabilities, etc.
    - EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 3y ago
      wait, no phones for 70y olds :)?
- Springtime 3y ago
  Fwiw LineageOS has historically supported various Pixels for many years longer*, eg. the Pixel 2 (2017) which has been updated to Android 13[1]. GrapheneOS on the other hand only supports devices for as long as the manufacturer provides official updates from what I understand. * Subject to of course willing volunteers. [1] https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/walleye/ https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/walleye/
  - jeroenhd 3y ago
    It should be noted that some security vulnerabilities, such as firmware blobs and binary blob drivers, can't be fixed by LineageOS. Certain Broadcom WiFi chipsets had RCE vulnerabilities in them, for instance, and these devices also run an entirely separate Linux install on the modem chip that rarely receives updates, if ever. While LineageOS can easily extend a phone's lifetime by several years, it's not a real replacement for manufacturer support. I think GrapheneOS's take makes sense, especially for a security-oriented ROM.
    - Springtime 3y ago
      Mmm, for this reason it's worthwhile keeping an eye out for firmware-level issues in case the device is outside the OEM supported range. Eg: CVE-2020-11292[1] which affected Qualcomm chips. [1] https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/qualcomm-vulnerability-impacts-nearly-40-percent-of-all-mobile-phones/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/qualcomm-vuln...
      - lostmsu 3y ago
        That's still a local privilege escalation type of vulnerability, isn't it?
    - toastercat 3y ago
      Do you know what the attack vector is for exploiting an outdated phone? Asking because I really do not want to get rid of my Pixel 5 in one month.
- darkclouds 3y ago
  Got rid of mine, they kept being hacked with grapheneOS installed, but even previous samsung android phones were also being hacked. When you are being targetted, you soon find out that these big and small businesses cant save you from criminals.
  - Aachen 3y ago
    Have you checked your CO detectors recently?
    - darkclouds 3y ago
      Explain why I should check the CO detectors.
      - Aachen 3y ago
        https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/sajxyf/oop_keeps_finding_postit_notes_in_his_apartment/ https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/sajx... I'd post a teddit or libreddit but 429 https://teddit.net/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/sajxyf/oop_keeps_finding_postit_notes_in_his_apartment/ https://teddit.net/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/sajxyf/o... https://libreddit.acor.is/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/sajxyf/oop_keeps_finding_postit_notes_in_his_apartment/ https://libreddit.acor.is/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/s...
        darkclouds 3y ago
        tldr
        tonymillion 3y ago
        TL;DR: You might have Carbon Monoxide poisoning which is inducing memory loss and these “hacks” you are experiencing are merely you doing things to yourself that you don’t remember.
- rpigab 3y ago
  I have no plans to stop using my Pixel 3 running Android.
- toastercat 3y ago
  > Pixel 5 Updates [...] Ends in 1 month and 2 weeks No way am I getting rid of my Pixel 5 in a month, it still runs like a champ. Can anyone tell me realistically what are the risks of running a phone without security updates? If it's worth anything, I almost exclusively run FOSS apps from F-Droid.
  - pacoverdi 3y ago
    Same boat. Feels like I bought my Pixel 5 yesterday and it feels like new, no way I'm going to trash it. It's unlikely I will buy (or recommend) another Pixel if they don't extend the security updates period. Wonder why it is so short: is support that expensive for many models? or simply to force users into unneeded upgrades (F* that).
    - Projectiboga 3y ago
      I got my Pixel 5a based on an erroneous assumption of five years of support, I see EOL for support in 2024, which is only 3 years past release!
- aiilns 3y ago
  Oh yes, and when support ends it's practically impossible to use a phone. I've never understood people talking about "support", still rocking a 7 year old phone (have changed the battery) with fairly recent lineageos. Only really use floss apps though and don't browse weird sites. I use a computer for serious stuff. If you really cared about waste you could a) not buy a phone with limited support if for some mystical reason you care for that or b) find ways to use the phone without support.
cooperadymas 3y ago
They're not mutually exclusive.
Aachen 3y ago
Refurbished is already a market. Anyone who wants that can choose such a phone. For those who want a new device (you'll need people to buy those, if you want there to be a second hand or refurbished market), there is Fairphone. I don't see that as greenwashing at all. > You will be more environmentally friendly if you just don't upgrade from whatever phone you have for a few years. I'm not going to buy a new phone if I'm not in the market, that much should be obvious for anyone? Probably doubly so for the people willing to buy a Fairphone.
Moldoteck 3y ago
It would be ok to resell, but not all phones can be maintained in terms of security/os. Fp5 is directed at new customers while fp3/4 users can continue using their devices
oniony 3y ago
I'm still on a Nokia 8 I bought five years ago. It works fine, though I have to knock the camera a few times before the focusing starts working. Unfortunately I've just found out this week that Slack are discontinuing support for my version of Android. As my workplace uses Slack and I need to support the applications I work on, this means I'll need to either get a new phone or install a custom ROM so that I can get a more modern Android version. As it's my primary and only phone, the custom ROM route is a little worrying as it means I could potentially be without a phone if I don't have time to work through any issues that come up. Also, last time I ran a custom ROM, Google Wallet refused to work on my device. So I'm effectively forced to buy a new device, despite being reasonably happy with the one I've got.
- nurbl 3y ago
  I had a really old phone that I liked, but which slack discontinued support for. The effect was that the slack app would still start and you could even see the channels etc behind the big "not supported" badge that immediately popped up. However, notifications still worked, and that was (and is) my main use case anyway, so I didn't mind. I found it a pretty weird way of "discontinuing" support though. Unfortunately I had to switch to a newer phone later when my bank app started complaining.
  - petabytes 3y ago
    It makes me really sad that some modern apps don't work on older Android versions. For the apps I'm currently working on, I'm making a big deal out of them being responsive and usable on 8 yr old phones.
- aziaziazi 3y ago
  Congratulation for the 5 years lifespan, you already beat the world average by two! > I’m effectively forced to buy a new phone. forced seems a bit strong: - Wallet: everyone used to carry a 10g credit card in their pocket for the last decades and it worked pretty well and conveniently. There’s some consumers avantages but the biggest winner with phone wallets are Google and Apple. - Slack: there’s a web based version, even if not very convenient with phone. Don’t know your role and position but most employees can get away with desktop slack. Not having slack on your personal phone is also seen as a benefit for many. - support the application I work on: stand instead for supporting you own phone with the application you work on. If your phone can handle it, flagships will. As an app worker you can have a real impact on phones durability by allowing others users to continue using your service with their own 5yo phones.
dathinab 3y ago
> You will be more environmentally friendly if you just don't upgrade from whatever phone you have for a few years. Trick maybe, but also: Which is why they provide 5 years warranty software updates. And while there are phone you might be able to use well beyond 5 years for your use-case, after 5 years (and often earlier) many want a new phone, in the end people are not fully selfless and needs can also change. E.g. I for a very long time didn't need a camera, but now I need one and the one of my current ~4 year old phone just doesn't quite cut it. And if I get a FP5 now I probably will be able to use it for the full 5 years, and them I will check if I can put some alternate OS on it and pass it one to someone who is satisfied with that.
ChrisRR 3y ago
Replaced the battery in my 5yo OnePlus 6 the other day for exactly this reason. Apart from the previously low battery life there's absolutely no other reason for me to upgrade. The camera is good enough, the screen is good enough, weight, screen size, expandable storage all good enough.
2-718-281-828 3y ago
"can't wait to get the new fairphone!"
reportgunner 3y ago
> You will be more environmentally friendly if you just don't upgrade from whatever phone you have for a few years. I was thinking about getting a fairphone as my 5 years old Huawei P20 Lite was suffering from poor battery life and USB-C and 3.5mm jack not working so well anymore. A friend told me that a battery replacement and jack cleaning would be very cheap, I went for it and I'm very happy I did, I like my phone a lot.
aspyct 3y ago
"The most sustainable phone is the one you already have". That's what they said in an email reply to me. Not sure what question I was asking, but they were very upfront about it. Sure, you can get second hand phones, but: 1. You won't get any security patches (or not for long) 2. I don't think I can trust a 2nd hand device to not be modified in some way. Feels like an easy way to get valuable data. So if security is a concern at all, I think new phones are sadly the only way to go.
- Vinnl 3y ago
  Also, if you're buying a working second-hand phone, it's probably because the seller wants to buy a new one anyway.
hddherman 3y ago
Fairphone agrees with your point: https://www.fairphone.com/en/2019/05/20/the-most-sustainable-phone-is-the-one-you-already-own/ https://www.fairphone.com/en/2019/05/20/the-most-sustainable...
wazoox 3y ago
My phone is a Oneplus 5T from late 2017, it will probably be fine for another 5 years at least but will probably require a battery replacement at some point. My wife uses my previous phone, a OnePlus One from 2013, still going strong, its 10 year old battery still runs for two full days (LineageOS without Google sh*t draining it).
pvillano 3y ago
Donate your old phone and it will keep being used
Fnoord 3y ago
You're forgetting the second hand market. If you can give your kid a decent, secure hand-me-down or sell your 2 year old device for 50% of orig. price you are saving both money and environment in these respects. That said it is a decent reflection 'do I really need a new one' but a lot of people (esp poor ppl) run around with insecure devices, a shame.
- Shawnj2 3y ago
  Someone still needs to make new phones for the second hand market to exist so I think what fairphone is doing is positive

reedlaw 3y ago

I would gladly use my Pixel 4a (5G) another few years but its support ends in two months [1]. Even though I run GrapheneOS, the open source community is not capable of maintaining firmware, kernel and vendor code [2]. 1. https://endoflife.date/pixel https://endoflife.date/pixel 2. https://grapheneos.org/faq#legacy-devices https://grapheneos.org/faq#legacy-devices

gameoverhumans 3y ago
I agree it's a shame that Google didn't do a better job with the older Pixel devices. It's worth noting, however, that all of their newer flagships (based on a CPU design they have more control over) have guaranteed security updates for 5 years after release. FWIW I despise Google and do my absolute best to avoid compensating them, but I do think things like their guaranteed security updates are a step in the right direction, and hopefully we can only get further improvements from here.
- aziaziazi 3y ago
  5 years is too short, it means we need to buy at very least 10 brand new phones from 15yo to 60yo (oldies also need security updated right ?). We need a pocket device that do clock, agenda, media player, camera, web browser and obviously phone. Apps are great but can be replaced with on/offline sites. We’re going in a direction that sacrifice users and resources sustainability in favor of the economy. I’m not against economy but it should be a tool to empower humanity, not the opposite.
  - gameoverhumans 3y ago
    Yes, I agree. In my perfect world, a company is legally required to support ALL products they have ever sold, for an unlimited period of time. There would still be warranty periods. But the company would be required to indefinitely continue selling replacement parts, provide repair services (or support third party repair services with manuals, schematics, etc), issue security updates for critical vulnerabilities, etc.
  - EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 3y ago
    wait, no phones for 70y olds :)?
Springtime 3y ago
Fwiw LineageOS has historically supported various Pixels for many years longer*, eg. the Pixel 2 (2017) which has been updated to Android 13[1]. GrapheneOS on the other hand only supports devices for as long as the manufacturer provides official updates from what I understand. * Subject to of course willing volunteers. [1] https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/walleye/ https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/walleye/
- jeroenhd 3y ago
  It should be noted that some security vulnerabilities, such as firmware blobs and binary blob drivers, can't be fixed by LineageOS. Certain Broadcom WiFi chipsets had RCE vulnerabilities in them, for instance, and these devices also run an entirely separate Linux install on the modem chip that rarely receives updates, if ever. While LineageOS can easily extend a phone's lifetime by several years, it's not a real replacement for manufacturer support. I think GrapheneOS's take makes sense, especially for a security-oriented ROM.
  - Springtime 3y ago
    Mmm, for this reason it's worthwhile keeping an eye out for firmware-level issues in case the device is outside the OEM supported range. Eg: CVE-2020-11292[1] which affected Qualcomm chips. [1] https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/qualcomm-vulnerability-impacts-nearly-40-percent-of-all-mobile-phones/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/qualcomm-vuln...
    - lostmsu 3y ago
      That's still a local privilege escalation type of vulnerability, isn't it?
  - toastercat 3y ago
    Do you know what the attack vector is for exploiting an outdated phone? Asking because I really do not want to get rid of my Pixel 5 in one month.
darkclouds 3y ago
Got rid of mine, they kept being hacked with grapheneOS installed, but even previous samsung android phones were also being hacked. When you are being targetted, you soon find out that these big and small businesses cant save you from criminals.
- Aachen 3y ago
  Have you checked your CO detectors recently?
  - darkclouds 3y ago
    Explain why I should check the CO detectors.
    - Aachen 3y ago
      https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/sajxyf/oop_keeps_finding_postit_notes_in_his_apartment/ https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/sajx... I'd post a teddit or libreddit but 429 https://teddit.net/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/sajxyf/oop_keeps_finding_postit_notes_in_his_apartment/ https://teddit.net/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/sajxyf/o... https://libreddit.acor.is/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/sajxyf/oop_keeps_finding_postit_notes_in_his_apartment/ https://libreddit.acor.is/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/s...
      - darkclouds 3y ago
        tldr
        tonymillion 3y ago
        TL;DR: You might have Carbon Monoxide poisoning which is inducing memory loss and these “hacks” you are experiencing are merely you doing things to yourself that you don’t remember.
rpigab 3y ago
I have no plans to stop using my Pixel 3 running Android.
toastercat 3y ago
> Pixel 5 Updates [...] Ends in 1 month and 2 weeks No way am I getting rid of my Pixel 5 in a month, it still runs like a champ. Can anyone tell me realistically what are the risks of running a phone without security updates? If it's worth anything, I almost exclusively run FOSS apps from F-Droid.
- pacoverdi 3y ago
  Same boat. Feels like I bought my Pixel 5 yesterday and it feels like new, no way I'm going to trash it. It's unlikely I will buy (or recommend) another Pixel if they don't extend the security updates period. Wonder why it is so short: is support that expensive for many models? or simply to force users into unneeded upgrades (F* that).
  - Projectiboga 3y ago
    I got my Pixel 5a based on an erroneous assumption of five years of support, I see EOL for support in 2024, which is only 3 years past release!
aiilns 3y ago
Oh yes, and when support ends it's practically impossible to use a phone. I've never understood people talking about "support", still rocking a 7 year old phone (have changed the battery) with fairly recent lineageos. Only really use floss apps though and don't browse weird sites. I use a computer for serious stuff. If you really cared about waste you could a) not buy a phone with limited support if for some mystical reason you care for that or b) find ways to use the phone without support.

cooperadymas 3y ago

They're not mutually exclusive.

Aachen 3y ago

Refurbished is already a market. Anyone who wants that can choose such a phone. For those who want a new device (you'll need people to buy those, if you want there to be a second hand or refurbished market), there is Fairphone. I don't see that as greenwashing at all. > You will be more environmentally friendly if you just don't upgrade from whatever phone you have for a few years. I'm not going to buy a new phone if I'm not in the market, that much should be obvious for anyone? Probably doubly so for the people willing to buy a Fairphone.

Moldoteck 3y ago

It would be ok to resell, but not all phones can be maintained in terms of security/os. Fp5 is directed at new customers while fp3/4 users can continue using their devices

oniony 3y ago

I'm still on a Nokia 8 I bought five years ago. It works fine, though I have to knock the camera a few times before the focusing starts working. Unfortunately I've just found out this week that Slack are discontinuing support for my version of Android. As my workplace uses Slack and I need to support the applications I work on, this means I'll need to either get a new phone or install a custom ROM so that I can get a more modern Android version. As it's my primary and only phone, the custom ROM route is a little worrying as it means I could potentially be without a phone if I don't have time to work through any issues that come up. Also, last time I ran a custom ROM, Google Wallet refused to work on my device. So I'm effectively forced to buy a new device, despite being reasonably happy with the one I've got.

nurbl 3y ago
I had a really old phone that I liked, but which slack discontinued support for. The effect was that the slack app would still start and you could even see the channels etc behind the big "not supported" badge that immediately popped up. However, notifications still worked, and that was (and is) my main use case anyway, so I didn't mind. I found it a pretty weird way of "discontinuing" support though. Unfortunately I had to switch to a newer phone later when my bank app started complaining.
- petabytes 3y ago
  It makes me really sad that some modern apps don't work on older Android versions. For the apps I'm currently working on, I'm making a big deal out of them being responsive and usable on 8 yr old phones.
aziaziazi 3y ago
Congratulation for the 5 years lifespan, you already beat the world average by two! > I’m effectively forced to buy a new phone. forced seems a bit strong: - Wallet: everyone used to carry a 10g credit card in their pocket for the last decades and it worked pretty well and conveniently. There’s some consumers avantages but the biggest winner with phone wallets are Google and Apple. - Slack: there’s a web based version, even if not very convenient with phone. Don’t know your role and position but most employees can get away with desktop slack. Not having slack on your personal phone is also seen as a benefit for many. - support the application I work on: stand instead for supporting you own phone with the application you work on. If your phone can handle it, flagships will. As an app worker you can have a real impact on phones durability by allowing others users to continue using your service with their own 5yo phones.

dathinab 3y ago

> You will be more environmentally friendly if you just don't upgrade from whatever phone you have for a few years. Trick maybe, but also: Which is why they provide 5 years warranty software updates. And while there are phone you might be able to use well beyond 5 years for your use-case, after 5 years (and often earlier) many want a new phone, in the end people are not fully selfless and needs can also change. E.g. I for a very long time didn't need a camera, but now I need one and the one of my current ~4 year old phone just doesn't quite cut it. And if I get a FP5 now I probably will be able to use it for the full 5 years, and them I will check if I can put some alternate OS on it and pass it one to someone who is satisfied with that.

ChrisRR 3y ago

Replaced the battery in my 5yo OnePlus 6 the other day for exactly this reason. Apart from the previously low battery life there's absolutely no other reason for me to upgrade. The camera is good enough, the screen is good enough, weight, screen size, expandable storage all good enough.

2-718-281-828 3y ago

"can't wait to get the new fairphone!"

reportgunner 3y ago

> You will be more environmentally friendly if you just don't upgrade from whatever phone you have for a few years. I was thinking about getting a fairphone as my 5 years old Huawei P20 Lite was suffering from poor battery life and USB-C and 3.5mm jack not working so well anymore. A friend told me that a battery replacement and jack cleaning would be very cheap, I went for it and I'm very happy I did, I like my phone a lot.

aspyct 3y ago

"The most sustainable phone is the one you already have". That's what they said in an email reply to me. Not sure what question I was asking, but they were very upfront about it. Sure, you can get second hand phones, but: 1. You won't get any security patches (or not for long) 2. I don't think I can trust a 2nd hand device to not be modified in some way. Feels like an easy way to get valuable data. So if security is a concern at all, I think new phones are sadly the only way to go.

Vinnl 3y ago
Also, if you're buying a working second-hand phone, it's probably because the seller wants to buy a new one anyway.

hddherman 3y ago

Fairphone agrees with your point: https://www.fairphone.com/en/2019/05/20/the-most-sustainable-phone-is-the-one-you-already-own/ https://www.fairphone.com/en/2019/05/20/the-most-sustainable...

wazoox 3y ago

My phone is a Oneplus 5T from late 2017, it will probably be fine for another 5 years at least but will probably require a battery replacement at some point. My wife uses my previous phone, a OnePlus One from 2013, still going strong, its 10 year old battery still runs for two full days (LineageOS without Google sh*t draining it).

pvillano 3y ago

Donate your old phone and it will keep being used

Fnoord 3y ago

You're forgetting the second hand market. If you can give your kid a decent, secure hand-me-down or sell your 2 year old device for 50% of orig. price you are saving both money and environment in these respects. That said it is a decent reflection 'do I really need a new one' but a lot of people (esp poor ppl) run around with insecure devices, a shame.

Shawnj2 3y ago
Someone still needs to make new phones for the second hand market to exist so I think what fairphone is doing is positive