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In the case of Twitter/X, 'Elon mode' was simply a testing configuration. I don't see why it would be any different in Tesla.

by xNeil 3y ago

Xylakant 3y ago
Even if it is a testing configuration, it has no place in code that is deployed to vehicles that drive on public roads, much less being enabled on cars that drive on public roads, without prior special approval - which is what’s under investigation. I am not a test subject.
- DoingIsLearning 3y ago
  For completeness I've seen a fair share of Infotainment units with development/test modes in production. The main difference is as far as I know those have a fairly segregate gap between cockpit infotainment and safety critical vehicle functions, including separate CAN buses and CAN gateways. With Tesla I am not sure as they seem to have thrown away every lesson in Automotive design and started from scratch.
  - Xylakant 3y ago
    I have no issue with infotainment systems with development, beta, test modes in vehicles on the road as long as the infotainment system is not essential to safe operation of the vehicle.
    - DoingIsLearning 3y ago
      My point exactly, entirely unclear to me if that separation happens with Tesla.
      - Xylakant 3y ago
        As far as I remember, the infotainment screen and menus are used for operations related to driving the car, such as wiper controls. I don’t own a Tesla nor do I drive one, so I may be wrong. I personally would consider that a lack of separation. In this case, however, the question is irrelevant - the FSD system is clearly part of operating the vehicle, it’s safety relevant and not there for infotainment.
FireBeyond 3y ago
Except until forced to, the Tesla default nag mode was "one alert per fifteen MINUTES". All their marketing (I'm sorry, I forgot, Tesla doesn't do marketing) is all about the safety of FSD/AP and their vehicles in general. The reality is very much "we have to be dragged kicking and screaming into most safety improvements".
- thejazzman 3y ago
  I'm no fan of Tesla [anymore] but as an owner since 2015 I've never gone more than 2 minutes without a nag. And it's a rather shitty system in general considering my hands are always on the wheel and I have to constantly manually apply resistance. So maybe don't hate on a theoretical 15m window. Sounds kind of amazing. It's not like the car doesn't constantly demands you take over outside of this nag...
- sidibe 3y ago
  > we have to be dragged kicking and screaming into most safety improvements tesla.com/autopilot doesn't hide this. The video that's the main feature of the page (from many years ago) starts out saying the person in driver seat is only there for legal reasons. It's ridiculous what they've gotten away with.
- eclipxe 3y ago
  That's not true. It is not one alert per fifteen minutes. Where did you get that info?
  - FireBeyond 3y ago
    "Until forced to". 2016 it was fifteen minutes. 2017, it was reduced to five minutes. And from then down to where it is now. > One of the findings was alarming. According to the NTSB, an agency that rarely investigates auto accidents and usually spends years delving into plane crashes: "[d]uring the last 41 minutes of [Joshua] Brown's trip, the Model S was in Autopilot for 37.5 minutes …. Brown had his hands off the wheel for a total of 37 minutes during the time the car was in Autopilot." > "The Model S displayed the visual warning 'hold steering wheel' seven times during the trip."
ncallaway 3y ago
Well, test configurations on Twitter are one thing. Test configurations on the public roadways make everyone around the vehicle an unwilling participant in that testing configuration. Having a testing configuration doesn’t strike me as a problem, but it seems like it would be very important that the testing configuration be managed very carefully, and only applied to the appropriate vehicles that are intended to be operated under testing conditions.
- moralestapia 3y ago
  >Test configurations on the public roadways make everyone around the vehicle an unwilling participant in that testing configuration. Why do people fail/refuse to grasp this really simple thing?
  - osuairt 3y ago
    Because they just parrot whatever Elon tells them to, they fall for his schtick. National Highway Transportation Administration is responsible for public safety in these matters, and will investigate the situation, and they will make a determination. Tired of Elon's psyops shit.
rasz 3y ago
Can I drive my car in test configuration where I unplug brakes and stop light? You know - for science!

In the case of Twitter/X, 'Elon mode' was simply a testing configuration. I don't see why it would be any different in Tesla.

by xNeil 3y ago

In the case of Twitter/X, 'Elon mode' was simply a testing configuration. I don't see why it would be any different in Tesla.

Xylakant 3y ago

Even if it is a testing configuration, it has no place in code that is deployed to vehicles that drive on public roads, much less being enabled on cars that drive on public roads, without prior special approval - which is what’s under investigation. I am not a test subject.

DoingIsLearning 3y ago
For completeness I've seen a fair share of Infotainment units with development/test modes in production. The main difference is as far as I know those have a fairly segregate gap between cockpit infotainment and safety critical vehicle functions, including separate CAN buses and CAN gateways. With Tesla I am not sure as they seem to have thrown away every lesson in Automotive design and started from scratch.
- Xylakant 3y ago
  I have no issue with infotainment systems with development, beta, test modes in vehicles on the road as long as the infotainment system is not essential to safe operation of the vehicle.
  - DoingIsLearning 3y ago
    My point exactly, entirely unclear to me if that separation happens with Tesla.
    - Xylakant 3y ago
      As far as I remember, the infotainment screen and menus are used for operations related to driving the car, such as wiper controls. I don’t own a Tesla nor do I drive one, so I may be wrong. I personally would consider that a lack of separation. In this case, however, the question is irrelevant - the FSD system is clearly part of operating the vehicle, it’s safety relevant and not there for infotainment.

FireBeyond 3y ago

Except until forced to, the Tesla default nag mode was "one alert per fifteen MINUTES". All their marketing (I'm sorry, I forgot, Tesla doesn't do marketing) is all about the safety of FSD/AP and their vehicles in general. The reality is very much "we have to be dragged kicking and screaming into most safety improvements".

thejazzman 3y ago
I'm no fan of Tesla [anymore] but as an owner since 2015 I've never gone more than 2 minutes without a nag. And it's a rather shitty system in general considering my hands are always on the wheel and I have to constantly manually apply resistance. So maybe don't hate on a theoretical 15m window. Sounds kind of amazing. It's not like the car doesn't constantly demands you take over outside of this nag...
sidibe 3y ago
> we have to be dragged kicking and screaming into most safety improvements tesla.com/autopilot doesn't hide this. The video that's the main feature of the page (from many years ago) starts out saying the person in driver seat is only there for legal reasons. It's ridiculous what they've gotten away with.
eclipxe 3y ago
That's not true. It is not one alert per fifteen minutes. Where did you get that info?
- FireBeyond 3y ago
  "Until forced to". 2016 it was fifteen minutes. 2017, it was reduced to five minutes. And from then down to where it is now. > One of the findings was alarming. According to the NTSB, an agency that rarely investigates auto accidents and usually spends years delving into plane crashes: "[d]uring the last 41 minutes of [Joshua] Brown's trip, the Model S was in Autopilot for 37.5 minutes …. Brown had his hands off the wheel for a total of 37 minutes during the time the car was in Autopilot." > "The Model S displayed the visual warning 'hold steering wheel' seven times during the trip."

ncallaway 3y ago

Well, test configurations on Twitter are one thing. Test configurations on the public roadways make everyone around the vehicle an unwilling participant in that testing configuration. Having a testing configuration doesn’t strike me as a problem, but it seems like it would be very important that the testing configuration be managed very carefully, and only applied to the appropriate vehicles that are intended to be operated under testing conditions.

moralestapia 3y ago
>Test configurations on the public roadways make everyone around the vehicle an unwilling participant in that testing configuration. Why do people fail/refuse to grasp this really simple thing?
- osuairt 3y ago
  Because they just parrot whatever Elon tells them to, they fall for his schtick. National Highway Transportation Administration is responsible for public safety in these matters, and will investigate the situation, and they will make a determination. Tired of Elon's psyops shit.

rasz 3y ago

Can I drive my car in test configuration where I unplug brakes and stop light? You know - for science!