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> KF is public and has a rule against harassing Internet users until they commit suicide You're putting words into my mouth. Kiwi Farms has rules against haras

> KF is public and has a rule against harassing Internet users until they commit suicide You're putting words into my mouth. Kiwi Farms has rules against harassment and bans anyone who does. There is a long history of communities organized specifically to troll people in real life (Something Awful, Sons of Kojima, The Idea Guys, etc.) Kiwi Farms is explicitly not that. Do people say mean and hateful things on it? Sure. But I've yet to see any actual examples of these alleged harassment campaigns, which should be easy to find considering that the site is open.

tadfisher 3y ago
You will have a very hard time convincing folks that KF should not be censored because they aren't as bad as other sites. As someone who doesn't frequent these places, I will concede that you may be right, but the point has sailed over your head and into outer space.
- richbell 3y ago
  > As someone who doesn't frequent these places, I will concede that you may be right, but the point has sailed over your head and into outer space. I disagree. The entire impetus behind getting Kiwi Farms removed from Cloudflare, having their domains revoked, having their phone numbers and registered agents cancel service, attempting to blackhole them from the Internet, etc. is that they are literally the worst website, so there is no need to feel bad or give them a fair "trial". If such outrage can be wielded to completely deplatform Kiwi Farms extrajudicially, it sets a terrifying precedent for the future.
  - vintermann 3y ago
    And also, you're not allowed to see for yourself. You must take on faith that KF is pure evil, if you want to look and see if they do anything that should possibly be protected speech, then you're one of them and must be banned too.
hnbad 3y ago
Sure. And the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is democratic because it says so in the name. I've personally seen the doxxing threads before and throughout the entire Keffals drama that got KF banned from so many platforms and services. There are videos out there of people going through those threads. The threads were pages upon pages long and KF regulars actively participated in them and cheered on the doxxing attempts. Trying to whitewash Kiwi Farms as just a site people go to have fun is pathetic. Especially to do so in a place like HN where people likely are aware enough of online drama to be able to call you out on this.
- richbell 3y ago
  > Sure. And the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is democratic because it says so in the name. > I've personally seen the doxxing threads before and throughout the entire Keffals drama that got KF banned from so many platforms and services. The thing is, that isn't what this is about. Doxing is completely legal[0]. That's why people are making up grandiose claims such as "Kiwi Farms exists solely to bully trans people into suicide". [0] not defending the act in any way or saying that I like it. It's just how things are.
  - hnbad 3y ago
    Sure, and telling a provider, even as a group, that continuing to do business with someone you deem undesirable is detrimental to their reputation is also legal. That's not what the EFF takes offense with. The EFF takes offense with a tier 1 ISP cutting off traffic from a provider because some of that traffic goes to KF. I haven't seen the claim you speak of but I have seen the claim that Kiwi Farms has a history of doxing trans people for no stated purpose other than to implicitly condone harassing and bullying them into suicide. The doxing against Keffals led to multiple instances of targeted harassment offline and KF members positively responded to this while continuing to support the doxing. If a book club mostly meets to discuss recent NYT bestsellers but occasionally serves to organize bank heists, it's entirely fair to describe it as seemingly solely existing to do bank heists because there are plenty of other book clubs that don't do this and this is its distinguishing trait.

tadfisher 3y ago

You will have a very hard time convincing folks that KF should not be censored because they aren't as bad as other sites. As someone who doesn't frequent these places, I will concede that you may be right, but the point has sailed over your head and into outer space.

richbell 3y ago
> As someone who doesn't frequent these places, I will concede that you may be right, but the point has sailed over your head and into outer space. I disagree. The entire impetus behind getting Kiwi Farms removed from Cloudflare, having their domains revoked, having their phone numbers and registered agents cancel service, attempting to blackhole them from the Internet, etc. is that they are literally the worst website, so there is no need to feel bad or give them a fair "trial". If such outrage can be wielded to completely deplatform Kiwi Farms extrajudicially, it sets a terrifying precedent for the future.
- vintermann 3y ago
  And also, you're not allowed to see for yourself. You must take on faith that KF is pure evil, if you want to look and see if they do anything that should possibly be protected speech, then you're one of them and must be banned too.

hnbad 3y ago

Sure. And the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is democratic because it says so in the name. I've personally seen the doxxing threads before and throughout the entire Keffals drama that got KF banned from so many platforms and services. There are videos out there of people going through those threads. The threads were pages upon pages long and KF regulars actively participated in them and cheered on the doxxing attempts. Trying to whitewash Kiwi Farms as just a site people go to have fun is pathetic. Especially to do so in a place like HN where people likely are aware enough of online drama to be able to call you out on this.

richbell 3y ago
> Sure. And the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is democratic because it says so in the name. > I've personally seen the doxxing threads before and throughout the entire Keffals drama that got KF banned from so many platforms and services. The thing is, that isn't what this is about. Doxing is completely legal[0]. That's why people are making up grandiose claims such as "Kiwi Farms exists solely to bully trans people into suicide". [0] not defending the act in any way or saying that I like it. It's just how things are.
- hnbad 3y ago
  Sure, and telling a provider, even as a group, that continuing to do business with someone you deem undesirable is detrimental to their reputation is also legal. That's not what the EFF takes offense with. The EFF takes offense with a tier 1 ISP cutting off traffic from a provider because some of that traffic goes to KF. I haven't seen the claim you speak of but I have seen the claim that Kiwi Farms has a history of doxing trans people for no stated purpose other than to implicitly condone harassing and bullying them into suicide. The doxing against Keffals led to multiple instances of targeted harassment offline and KF members positively responded to this while continuing to support the doxing. If a book club mostly meets to discuss recent NYT bestsellers but occasionally serves to organize bank heists, it's entirely fair to describe it as seemingly solely existing to do bank heists because there are plenty of other book clubs that don't do this and this is its distinguishing trait.