3 ms·

"...but if it weren't for you being offended there would be nothing wrong with this." Is this statement even controversial? The only reason someone issues an a

"...but if it weren't for you being offended there would be nothing wrong with this." Is this statement even controversial? The only reason someone issues an apology (honest or not) is because one or more others were offended. If nobody is offended, by definition there is nothing wrong with it.

npc 15y ago
So if I say something shockingly racist, but the only people around to hear it are my shockingly racist buddies, then it's totally OK because no-one is offended?
- byrneseyeview 15y ago
  I'm late to this, but: yes. Or rather, if you say something really offensive, like "Women should be allowed to read books, or even leave the house without covering their faces," it's not offensive because you probably aren't saying it in front of a Shia cleric. If you say something that's intellectually unfashionable, but the people you talk to are unphased, I just don't understand the case for considering that a bad thing. Who is the wronged party? How were they harmed? What's society's interest in redressing this, and what's our mechanism for doing so?
jballanc 15y ago
What you're describing is moral relativism. If I kill someone that everyone hates, is that wrong? If I kill a homeless person that had no friends and no family so nobody notices they're dead, is that wrong? The real question here is would you stand in front of the mirror, with no one around, and say to yourself "The women at this conference are a great perk!" without feeling bad? It's tempting to think "I have these views about blacks/hispanics/asians/women/etc., but I know how to control my reactions and keep my mouth shut." The problem is that people communicate as much subconsciously as they do consciously.
- byrneseyeview 15y ago
  Offensive comments are morally relative, though. Someone has to be offended, right? In your examples, the victim certainly notices and cares; if they get a vote, they're going to vote "immoral." But if you did something "murderous" in absolute privacy--like, say, doing some target shooting--I don't think it would be considered equivalent to murder. Similarly, if you do something "offensive" and nobody is there to get offended, I don't see what the crime is. Would it upset you if people were saying offensive things quietly to themselves in the privacy of their own homes? How would you propose to deal with that?
  - jballanc 15y ago
    You're putting the cart before the horse. People are not upset because the wording was offensive. People are offended because the wording was upsetting. The flyer clearly objectified "Women". Objectification of any category of humans should be considered wrong in any context. This is not a case of moral relativism (or at least it shouldn't be).
  - barrybe 15y ago
    There's no crime there. People have the right to say offensive things in the privacy of their own homes. Other people have the right to disagree with the first people, and to even voice their disagreement. What's the problem?
- reinhardt 15y ago
  When I wrote "nobody" I meant nobody, not "nobody among those that happen to be within hearing distance". This includes the people I have an X opinion about. IOW if blacks/hispanics/women. etc are not offended by my opinion about them, is it still wrong?

npc 15y ago

So if I say something shockingly racist, but the only people around to hear it are my shockingly racist buddies, then it's totally OK because no-one is offended?

byrneseyeview 15y ago
I'm late to this, but: yes. Or rather, if you say something really offensive, like "Women should be allowed to read books, or even leave the house without covering their faces," it's not offensive because you probably aren't saying it in front of a Shia cleric. If you say something that's intellectually unfashionable, but the people you talk to are unphased, I just don't understand the case for considering that a bad thing. Who is the wronged party? How were they harmed? What's society's interest in redressing this, and what's our mechanism for doing so?

jballanc 15y ago

What you're describing is moral relativism. If I kill someone that everyone hates, is that wrong? If I kill a homeless person that had no friends and no family so nobody notices they're dead, is that wrong? The real question here is would you stand in front of the mirror, with no one around, and say to yourself "The women at this conference are a great perk!" without feeling bad? It's tempting to think "I have these views about blacks/hispanics/asians/women/etc., but I know how to control my reactions and keep my mouth shut." The problem is that people communicate as much subconsciously as they do consciously.

byrneseyeview 15y ago
Offensive comments are morally relative, though. Someone has to be offended, right? In your examples, the victim certainly notices and cares; if they get a vote, they're going to vote "immoral." But if you did something "murderous" in absolute privacy--like, say, doing some target shooting--I don't think it would be considered equivalent to murder. Similarly, if you do something "offensive" and nobody is there to get offended, I don't see what the crime is. Would it upset you if people were saying offensive things quietly to themselves in the privacy of their own homes? How would you propose to deal with that?
- jballanc 15y ago
  You're putting the cart before the horse. People are not upset because the wording was offensive. People are offended because the wording was upsetting. The flyer clearly objectified "Women". Objectification of any category of humans should be considered wrong in any context. This is not a case of moral relativism (or at least it shouldn't be).
- barrybe 15y ago
  There's no crime there. People have the right to say offensive things in the privacy of their own homes. Other people have the right to disagree with the first people, and to even voice their disagreement. What's the problem?
reinhardt 15y ago
When I wrote "nobody" I meant nobody, not "nobody among those that happen to be within hearing distance". This includes the people I have an X opinion about. IOW if blacks/hispanics/women. etc are not offended by my opinion about them, is it still wrong?