4 ms·

It's the unfortunate battle of those who want to provide privacy, and those who want to use the privacy to do illegal things that will either get said things sh

It's the unfortunate battle of those who want to provide privacy, and those who want to use the privacy to do illegal things that will either get said things shut down, or cost them a lot of money (or freedom). Having been on both sides, we need more decentralization and a way to disconnect From those decentralized points. Not much else can be done besides a never ending game of cat and mouse.

throwaway290 3y ago
How to make sure decentralization doesn't enable more of those illegal things?
- CommitSyn 3y ago
  You don't. Because you can't. Those illegal things are going to exist as long as there is a market for them. All you can do is ensure that the general public who doesn't wish to partake isn't exposed to it without looking. Basically, you don't want your grandma finding the drug list or hacking tools unless she's specifically trying to find it. But it's going to exist, so let it exist (or rather, try if you wish but it's futile). Similar to tor hidden services and i2p eepsites.
chrisco255 3y ago
I doubt this is due to illegal things. There's kind of a limit to how much you can do illegally on a video feed. Nevermind that whatever you would be doing would be recorded and streamed to whoever popped into the anonymous room. The auth requirement is probably just a way to limit load and force people to at least attach their usage rates with an identity of some kind, so if one person or org is using thousands of hours of server load they can start charging for the service.
- BaseballPhysics 3y ago
  > I doubt this is due to illegal things. There's kind of a limit to how much you can do illegally on a video feed. ... are... are you joking?!
- throwaway290 3y ago
  I am dead sure it is about illegal things based on their phrasing. The kind of things that don't even appear on Zoom's Wikipedia even though Zoom is/was used for the same per documented evidence. Companies won't mention it because it's very bad publicity and other people won't pursue it because it's 2PTSD (or for some 1PTSD) material. Your comment is phrased like those things are not a big deal? > There's kind of a limit to how much you can do illegally on a video feed. Nevermind that whatever you would be doing would be recorded and streamed to whoever popped into the anonymous room. Criminals probably are aware that some of their customers would be cops after somebody got arrested for doing it over Zoom and they probably learned to do it without revealing identifiable details. And how would viewers pop in into a random room? There's no directory. They have a link that they paid for. And no, they wouldn't share this link with random people online.
  - chrisco255 3y ago
    What was it used for? Live streaming a crime in progress on a publicly accessible URL? Live streaming illegal content as if a torrent isn't already a superior format for that? As if 8x8's hosted Jitsi service could not just report such crimes to the authorities with full IP logs? The signalling all still had to route through 8x8 servers and the URLs were not gated. Anyone with a link could pop in.
    - throwaway290 3y ago
      Let's say live streaming crime in progress for profit. Sure Jitsi could make it their responsibility to track and report IPs etc. but that would require them to have people on staff whose job is only watch through this stuff and build infrastructure for that. And if they don't proactively do that and only cooperate with FBI when someone reports they would have to have it on their conscience. And even if they do it proactively I imagine in many cases IPs give you nothing if they use Tor or some anonymous ISP and don't give identifiable clues in videos. I don't think Jitsi guys want to suffer this stress/bad pr if they want to just build their product and provide a free public instance as a bonus

throwaway290 3y ago

How to make sure decentralization doesn't enable more of those illegal things?

CommitSyn 3y ago
You don't. Because you can't. Those illegal things are going to exist as long as there is a market for them. All you can do is ensure that the general public who doesn't wish to partake isn't exposed to it without looking. Basically, you don't want your grandma finding the drug list or hacking tools unless she's specifically trying to find it. But it's going to exist, so let it exist (or rather, try if you wish but it's futile). Similar to tor hidden services and i2p eepsites.

chrisco255 3y ago

I doubt this is due to illegal things. There's kind of a limit to how much you can do illegally on a video feed. Nevermind that whatever you would be doing would be recorded and streamed to whoever popped into the anonymous room. The auth requirement is probably just a way to limit load and force people to at least attach their usage rates with an identity of some kind, so if one person or org is using thousands of hours of server load they can start charging for the service.

BaseballPhysics 3y ago
> I doubt this is due to illegal things. There's kind of a limit to how much you can do illegally on a video feed. ... are... are you joking?!
throwaway290 3y ago
I am dead sure it is about illegal things based on their phrasing. The kind of things that don't even appear on Zoom's Wikipedia even though Zoom is/was used for the same per documented evidence. Companies won't mention it because it's very bad publicity and other people won't pursue it because it's 2PTSD (or for some 1PTSD) material. Your comment is phrased like those things are not a big deal? > There's kind of a limit to how much you can do illegally on a video feed. Nevermind that whatever you would be doing would be recorded and streamed to whoever popped into the anonymous room. Criminals probably are aware that some of their customers would be cops after somebody got arrested for doing it over Zoom and they probably learned to do it without revealing identifiable details. And how would viewers pop in into a random room? There's no directory. They have a link that they paid for. And no, they wouldn't share this link with random people online.
- chrisco255 3y ago
  What was it used for? Live streaming a crime in progress on a publicly accessible URL? Live streaming illegal content as if a torrent isn't already a superior format for that? As if 8x8's hosted Jitsi service could not just report such crimes to the authorities with full IP logs? The signalling all still had to route through 8x8 servers and the URLs were not gated. Anyone with a link could pop in.
  - throwaway290 3y ago
    Let's say live streaming crime in progress for profit. Sure Jitsi could make it their responsibility to track and report IPs etc. but that would require them to have people on staff whose job is only watch through this stuff and build infrastructure for that. And if they don't proactively do that and only cooperate with FBI when someone reports they would have to have it on their conscience. And even if they do it proactively I imagine in many cases IPs give you nothing if they use Tor or some anonymous ISP and don't give identifiable clues in videos. I don't think Jitsi guys want to suffer this stress/bad pr if they want to just build their product and provide a free public instance as a bonus