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- Corporations that obtain your data and then sell it or abuse it even if said abuse is permitted in some fine print. - Countries that commit crimes against hu

- Corporations that obtain your data and then sell it or abuse it even if said abuse is permitted in some fine print. - Countries that commit crimes against humanity but those should be fully physically blockaded rather than just blocking their internet. - ISP's and ISP resellers that aid and abet watering holes, phishing sites, scams, etc... and probably also entire countries that refuse to lift a finger to stop scam call centers should be globally BGP filtered .

X6S1x6Okd1st 3y ago
Blocking a country due to scam call centers is kind of horrifying collective punishment. The argument in the article is suggesting that blocking something so bad they will not defend it nor do they even want to look like they are defending it should not be done because of the slippery slope, meanwhile you've leapt straight to partitioning the internet cutting off billions of people.
- LinuxBender 3y ago
  Blocking a country due to scam call centers is kind of horrifying collective punishment. That it is and that is the point / goal. It would be in place about a day if even that long. Their government would go round up all the scam center scammers as they already know who and where they all are and the block would be lifted assuming it even managed to escalate to that point. FWIW I was just answering the question of who who deserves some attention prior to doing anything with the unhealthy trolls at KF. This is assuming anyone even had the ability to do anything I suggested. I would honestly prefer sites like KF stick around so they can be infiltrated by law enforcement to watch for the planning of bad things and I am making a massive assumption that glowies won't instigate the bad things to justify budgets but that's also a big topic in and of itself.
  - X6S1x6Okd1st 3y ago
    Let's take India as an example: 1) They clearly are able to tolerate being locked out of the internet at least in limited fashion, this is regularly being used to control domestic protests.: https://internetshutdowns.in/ https://internetshutdowns.in/ 2) If an external party imposes a constraint on a nationalistic government the govt can use this external attack to help bind their country together.
willdr 3y ago
So you'd support a physical blockade of the United States and trying their leadership at The Hague?
- LinuxBender 3y ago
  I am not aware of the US enslaving and mass executing people of particular ethnic backgrounds. There are certainly some awful people that do awful things but they are not the majority and not backed by the majority of the leadership. The internet will catch up to them. If there is evidence of mass enslavement and executions then absolutely all of those leaders must be brought before the Hague.
- vGPU 3y ago
  I’d be first in line to sign the petition
5e92cb50239222b 3y ago
Good, let's further isolate the population from independent sources of information and leave them completely in the dark about what's happening both in the outside world, and in their own countries. I often wonder who and for what purpose posts comments such as this one because they play so well towards what these dictators want. Or is it just ignorance coming from those who has never lived in a dictatorship. I will also let you know that many neutral countries receive our internet through some of those you imply by your statement. You would cut significant chunks of mostly poor population off the internet. We have some connectivity through other countries, but it will be back to the dial-up days for at least 5-10 years until more fiber is laid out.
- pseg134 3y ago
  If they don’t like their government, it is on them to change it. Not me.
- LinuxBender 3y ago
  Good, let's further isolate the population from independent sources of information I used to think this as well and even offered suggestions on HN for countries that were being blocked. In hindsight I feel that may have been a sub-optimal decision on my part. They need to first communicate with one another in their nation and find a way to rise up above the tyranny. The outside world will do little help with this. Physical blockades will make them desperate and force hard decisions and sacrifice. Every nation has to go through these awful growing pains. But ripping off that bandage is a big topic for another thread I think.
  - orbital-decay 3y ago
    > They need to first communicate with one another in their nation This is misguided, naive, and even arrogant. Instead of playing the group identity game and anthropomorphizing lawnmowers, imagining what someone must do, you need to understand how totalitarian systems work, there's no "government" and "people" as separate entities to clash, and no "dictators" either. There is simply no "they" to communicate to one another, and there's no communication/organization possible, as the system removes any means for doing that. Paradoxically, any totalitarian system is decentralized and stuck in the local optimum. Totalitarian systems are perfectly in balance while being isolated, and in fact always move towards self-isolation - take imperial Japan, USSR, or any other similar society. When your goals are the same as those systems', you should take a long look at what you're doing. It's often said that "Jeans brought USSR down", meaning the cultural influence of outside world. Discarding that is just stupid, it's the most fundamental leverage you have at your disposal.
FireBeyond 3y ago
> and probably also entire countries that refuse to lift a finger to stop scam call centers should be globally BGP filtered You could make a credible argument that the US is on that list too.

X6S1x6Okd1st 3y ago

Blocking a country due to scam call centers is kind of horrifying collective punishment. The argument in the article is suggesting that blocking something so bad they will not defend it nor do they even want to look like they are defending it should not be done because of the slippery slope, meanwhile you've leapt straight to partitioning the internet cutting off billions of people.

LinuxBender 3y ago
Blocking a country due to scam call centers is kind of horrifying collective punishment. That it is and that is the point / goal. It would be in place about a day if even that long. Their government would go round up all the scam center scammers as they already know who and where they all are and the block would be lifted assuming it even managed to escalate to that point. FWIW I was just answering the question of who who deserves some attention prior to doing anything with the unhealthy trolls at KF. This is assuming anyone even had the ability to do anything I suggested. I would honestly prefer sites like KF stick around so they can be infiltrated by law enforcement to watch for the planning of bad things and I am making a massive assumption that glowies won't instigate the bad things to justify budgets but that's also a big topic in and of itself.
- X6S1x6Okd1st 3y ago
  Let's take India as an example: 1) They clearly are able to tolerate being locked out of the internet at least in limited fashion, this is regularly being used to control domestic protests.: https://internetshutdowns.in/ https://internetshutdowns.in/ 2) If an external party imposes a constraint on a nationalistic government the govt can use this external attack to help bind their country together.

willdr 3y ago

So you'd support a physical blockade of the United States and trying their leadership at The Hague?

LinuxBender 3y ago
I am not aware of the US enslaving and mass executing people of particular ethnic backgrounds. There are certainly some awful people that do awful things but they are not the majority and not backed by the majority of the leadership. The internet will catch up to them. If there is evidence of mass enslavement and executions then absolutely all of those leaders must be brought before the Hague.
vGPU 3y ago
I’d be first in line to sign the petition

5e92cb50239222b 3y ago

Good, let's further isolate the population from independent sources of information and leave them completely in the dark about what's happening both in the outside world, and in their own countries. I often wonder who and for what purpose posts comments such as this one because they play so well towards what these dictators want. Or is it just ignorance coming from those who has never lived in a dictatorship. I will also let you know that many neutral countries receive our internet through some of those you imply by your statement. You would cut significant chunks of mostly poor population off the internet. We have some connectivity through other countries, but it will be back to the dial-up days for at least 5-10 years until more fiber is laid out.

pseg134 3y ago
If they don’t like their government, it is on them to change it. Not me.
LinuxBender 3y ago
Good, let's further isolate the population from independent sources of information I used to think this as well and even offered suggestions on HN for countries that were being blocked. In hindsight I feel that may have been a sub-optimal decision on my part. They need to first communicate with one another in their nation and find a way to rise up above the tyranny. The outside world will do little help with this. Physical blockades will make them desperate and force hard decisions and sacrifice. Every nation has to go through these awful growing pains. But ripping off that bandage is a big topic for another thread I think.
- orbital-decay 3y ago
  > They need to first communicate with one another in their nation This is misguided, naive, and even arrogant. Instead of playing the group identity game and anthropomorphizing lawnmowers, imagining what someone must do, you need to understand how totalitarian systems work, there's no "government" and "people" as separate entities to clash, and no "dictators" either. There is simply no "they" to communicate to one another, and there's no communication/organization possible, as the system removes any means for doing that. Paradoxically, any totalitarian system is decentralized and stuck in the local optimum. Totalitarian systems are perfectly in balance while being isolated, and in fact always move towards self-isolation - take imperial Japan, USSR, or any other similar society. When your goals are the same as those systems', you should take a long look at what you're doing. It's often said that "Jeans brought USSR down", meaning the cultural influence of outside world. Discarding that is just stupid, it's the most fundamental leverage you have at your disposal.

FireBeyond 3y ago

> and probably also entire countries that refuse to lift a finger to stop scam call centers should be globally BGP filtered You could make a credible argument that the US is on that list too.