5 ms·

Kiwifarms isn't some kind of free voice of resistance or gazette, it's just a loose collection of volatile assholes who were banned from 4chan and reddit.

bb88 3y ago
It might also be a meeting place for conspirators to plan crimes.
- sneak 3y ago
  So are bars. Should the electric company deny service to biker bars?
  - bb88 3y ago
    Do you really want the answer, or was that a question hoping to shame me? So if the biker bars are distributing child porn, or illegal drugs or guns, or using it as a place for conspiracy terrorism, then yeah, I say yes those corporations serving said bar should have a say. Particularly if the biker bar, e.g., violated the company's Christian morals. More importantly, this is supported by case law, today. The decisions of who a business chooses as it's customer is actively being challenged by conservatives in this country. See the Masterpiece Cakeshop ruling. In this case the decision was overturned on religious grounds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterpiece_Cakeshop_v._Colorado_Civil_Rights_Commission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterpiece_Cakeshop_v._Colora... I would bet a significant amount that if an electric company didn't want to serve a biker bar on religious grounds (particularly if there was active criminal activity), they probably would get away with it. The last time I checked the constitution there wasn't a right to internet or electric or phone service. There was a right for religious beliefs, though.
    - kortilla 3y ago
      > More importantly, this is supported by case law, today. The Supreme Court ruling was not on using religion as an excuse not to serve. Supreme Court ruling was an about the commission violating a rule on religious neutrality. It set no precedent for the substance of the original suit. > I would bet a significant amount that if an electric company didn't want to serve a biker bar on religious grounds (particularly if there was active criminal activity), they probably would get away with it. You would be wrong. Electricity is not “creating expression”, which is what the lower courts were ruling on.
    - oceanplexian 3y ago
      > So if the biker bars are distributing child porn, or illegal drugs or guns, or using it as a place for conspiracy terrorism, then yeah, I say yes those corporations serving said bar should have a say. For the sake of argument let’s change it from biker bar to a LGBT bar. Say some customers may be doing illegal drugs, and the CEO of the electric company (Known for his stance against illegal drugs) got wind of it. Like the biker bar, they were never afforded due process, and were never ordered to shut down in a court of law. Instead, the CEO orders his company to shut off the power; the reason being, he knows it must be true because a local reporter told him so. Not only that, a friend of his went to the bar and saw people doing drugs. The bar gets no jury, no trial. A structure without electricity is considered uninhabitable, and the bar is forced to close down. Do you still think this is legal?
      - bb88 3y ago
        > Do you still think this is legal? The Masterpiece ruling was a 7-2 decision. We can get into if/buts etc.... but the way I see it, common carrier status is a congressional law, not a constitutional one.
- richbell 3y ago
  > It might also be a meeting place for conspirators to plan crimes. That might is doing a lot of heavy lifting. Do you have any evidence that this occurs?
  - bb88 3y ago
    So you do realize that cyberstalking is a crime in US code: 47 U.S.C. § 223, right? It seems pretty clear they're doing that, no? See also: https://blog.cloudflare.com/kiwifarms-blocked/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/kiwifarms-blocked/ "Feeling attacked, users of Kiwifarms became even more aggressive. Over the last two weeks, we have proactively reached out to law enforcement in multiple jurisdictions highlighting what we believe are potential criminal acts and imminent threats to human life that were posted to the site." Seems weird that you can't just google this, I mean it took me 30 seconds to do this.
    - richbell 3y ago
      > So you do realize that cyberstalking is a crime in US code: 47 U.S.C. § 223, right? It seems pretty clear they're doing that, no? You claimed people "might" be using the forums to commit crimes, now you're saying "it's pretty clear". Again, what actual evidence do you have to back these claims? > Seems weird that you can't just google this, I mean it took me 30 seconds to do this. I aware of this blog post by CloudFlare. However, I am not aware of any actual evidence or examples that substantiate the claims made in it. The operator of Kiwi Farms has publicly stated that he received no notice from either CloudFlare or law enforcement about the alleged threats. CloudFlare has also never provided any specifics publicly. In my opinion, the CEO was overruled and forced to remove KF, and that blog post is a transparent attempt to save face after beating his chest about never backing down. ) However, the rhetoric on the Kiwifarms site and specific, targeted threats have escalated over the last 48 hours to the point that we believe there is an unprecedented emergency and immediate threat to human life unlike we have previously seen from Kiwifarms or any other customer before.
      - bb88 3y ago
        > You claimed people "might" be using the forums to commit crimes, now you're saying "it's pretty clear". Sorry, I can't edit the original comment anymore. But thanks for pointing that out! > However, I am not aware of any actual evidence or examples that substantiate the claims made in it. Fortunately US Code doesn't require violence for cyberbullying to be a crime.
yanderekko 3y ago
The "good tribe" will always characterize the dissenters of the "bad tribe" in this way.
- superchroma 3y ago
  Doesn't change the facts. I hope they come for kiwifarms. I hope it's snuffed out quietly one day and never returns and all its miserable denizens will be forced to know a fraction of the discomfort they inflicted on others.

bb88 3y ago

It might also be a meeting place for conspirators to plan crimes.

sneak 3y ago
So are bars. Should the electric company deny service to biker bars?
- bb88 3y ago
  Do you really want the answer, or was that a question hoping to shame me? So if the biker bars are distributing child porn, or illegal drugs or guns, or using it as a place for conspiracy terrorism, then yeah, I say yes those corporations serving said bar should have a say. Particularly if the biker bar, e.g., violated the company's Christian morals. More importantly, this is supported by case law, today. The decisions of who a business chooses as it's customer is actively being challenged by conservatives in this country. See the Masterpiece Cakeshop ruling. In this case the decision was overturned on religious grounds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterpiece_Cakeshop_v._Colorado_Civil_Rights_Commission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterpiece_Cakeshop_v._Colora... I would bet a significant amount that if an electric company didn't want to serve a biker bar on religious grounds (particularly if there was active criminal activity), they probably would get away with it. The last time I checked the constitution there wasn't a right to internet or electric or phone service. There was a right for religious beliefs, though.
  - kortilla 3y ago
    > More importantly, this is supported by case law, today. The Supreme Court ruling was not on using religion as an excuse not to serve. Supreme Court ruling was an about the commission violating a rule on religious neutrality. It set no precedent for the substance of the original suit. > I would bet a significant amount that if an electric company didn't want to serve a biker bar on religious grounds (particularly if there was active criminal activity), they probably would get away with it. You would be wrong. Electricity is not “creating expression”, which is what the lower courts were ruling on.
  - oceanplexian 3y ago
    > So if the biker bars are distributing child porn, or illegal drugs or guns, or using it as a place for conspiracy terrorism, then yeah, I say yes those corporations serving said bar should have a say. For the sake of argument let’s change it from biker bar to a LGBT bar. Say some customers may be doing illegal drugs, and the CEO of the electric company (Known for his stance against illegal drugs) got wind of it. Like the biker bar, they were never afforded due process, and were never ordered to shut down in a court of law. Instead, the CEO orders his company to shut off the power; the reason being, he knows it must be true because a local reporter told him so. Not only that, a friend of his went to the bar and saw people doing drugs. The bar gets no jury, no trial. A structure without electricity is considered uninhabitable, and the bar is forced to close down. Do you still think this is legal?
    - bb88 3y ago
      > Do you still think this is legal? The Masterpiece ruling was a 7-2 decision. We can get into if/buts etc.... but the way I see it, common carrier status is a congressional law, not a constitutional one.
richbell 3y ago
> It might also be a meeting place for conspirators to plan crimes. That might is doing a lot of heavy lifting. Do you have any evidence that this occurs?
- bb88 3y ago
  So you do realize that cyberstalking is a crime in US code: 47 U.S.C. § 223, right? It seems pretty clear they're doing that, no? See also: https://blog.cloudflare.com/kiwifarms-blocked/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/kiwifarms-blocked/ "Feeling attacked, users of Kiwifarms became even more aggressive. Over the last two weeks, we have proactively reached out to law enforcement in multiple jurisdictions highlighting what we believe are potential criminal acts and imminent threats to human life that were posted to the site." Seems weird that you can't just google this, I mean it took me 30 seconds to do this.
  - richbell 3y ago
    > So you do realize that cyberstalking is a crime in US code: 47 U.S.C. § 223, right? It seems pretty clear they're doing that, no? You claimed people "might" be using the forums to commit crimes, now you're saying "it's pretty clear". Again, what actual evidence do you have to back these claims? > Seems weird that you can't just google this, I mean it took me 30 seconds to do this. I aware of this blog post by CloudFlare. However, I am not aware of any actual evidence or examples that substantiate the claims made in it. The operator of Kiwi Farms has publicly stated that he received no notice from either CloudFlare or law enforcement about the alleged threats. CloudFlare has also never provided any specifics publicly. In my opinion, the CEO was overruled and forced to remove KF, and that blog post is a transparent attempt to save face after beating his chest about never backing down. ) However, the rhetoric on the Kiwifarms site and specific, targeted threats have escalated over the last 48 hours to the point that we believe there is an unprecedented emergency and immediate threat to human life unlike we have previously seen from Kiwifarms or any other customer before.
    - bb88 3y ago
      > You claimed people "might" be using the forums to commit crimes, now you're saying "it's pretty clear". Sorry, I can't edit the original comment anymore. But thanks for pointing that out! > However, I am not aware of any actual evidence or examples that substantiate the claims made in it. Fortunately US Code doesn't require violence for cyberbullying to be a crime.

yanderekko 3y ago

The "good tribe" will always characterize the dissenters of the "bad tribe" in this way.

superchroma 3y ago
Doesn't change the facts. I hope they come for kiwifarms. I hope it's snuffed out quietly one day and never returns and all its miserable denizens will be forced to know a fraction of the discomfort they inflicted on others.